A Sunday morning cartoon to help explane the plan of Salvatn

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_Inconceivable
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Wairing your fireproof suit?

Post by _Inconceivable »

Gazelam wrote:There is no scripture or authoritative statements made that say Christ was married or had children, merely alot of educated speculation.


Gaz,

You are calling apostles of the Lord Jesus Christ Liars? Yes indeed.

What qualifies you to say that Orson Hyde and Jedediah M. Grant were not speaking the mind and will of the Lord?

Jump in my time machine and we'll visit the conferences where they are stating this doctrine. Please feel free to interupt their discourses and defy their "authoritative statements" as a lot of "educated speculation". You can even call Hyde the great blasphemer.

I double dog dare you.

Your statement may work in the Relief society class you attend but not in a place where the information is readily available.

I discover that some of the Eastern papers represent me as a great
blasphemer, because I said, in my lecture on Marriage, at our last
Conference, that Jesus Christ was married at Cana of Galilee, that Mary,
Martha, and others were his wives, and that he begat children
.

All that I have to say in reply to that charge is this - they
worship a Savior that is too pure and holy to fulfil the commands of his
Father. I worship one that is just pure and holy enough "to fulfil all
righteousness;" not only the righteous law of baptism, but the still more
righteous and important law "to multiply and replenish the earth." Startle
not at this! for even the Father himself honored that law by coming down
to Mary, without a natural body, and begetting a son; and if Jesus begat
children, he only "did that which he had seen his Father do."

Journal of Discourses: Orson Hyde March 18, 1855 SLC



Pass on still further in their history, and look at their course and conduct, if you will believe the
writers that lived in that age. What does old Celsus say, who was physician in the first century,
whose medical works are esteemed very highly at the present time. His works on theology were
burned with fire by the Catholics, they were so shocked at what they called their impiety. Celsus
was a heathen philosopher; and what does he say upon the subject of Christ and his Apostles, and
their belief? He says, "The grand reason why the Gentiles and philosophers of his school persecuted
Jesus Christ, was, because he had so many wives; there were Elizabeth, and Mary, and a host of
others that followed him." After Jesus went from the stage of action, the Apostles followed the
example of their master. For instance, John the beloved disciple, writes in his second Epistle, "Unto
the elect lady and her children, whom I love in the truth." Again, he says, "Having many things to
write unto you (or communicate), I would not write with paper and ink: but I trust to come unto you,
and speak face to face, that our joy may be full." Again -"The children of thy elect sister greet thee.

" This ancient philosopher says they were both John's wives. Paul says, "Mine answer to them that
do examine me is this:

Have we not power to lead about a sister, a wife, as well as other apostles, and as the
brethren of the Lord, and Cephas." He, according to Celsus, had a numerous train of wives.

The grand reason of the burst of public sentiment in anathemas upon Christ and his
disciples, causing his crucifixion, was evidently based upon polygamy, according to the testimony
of the philosophers who rose in that age. A belief in the doctrine of a plurality of wives caused the
persecution of Jesus and his followers. We might almost think they were "Mormons."


JD 1:346 Jedediah M. Grant August 7, 1853


If you have read this before you did not understand it.

Flame off.
_gramps
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Re: Wairing your fireproof suit?

Post by _gramps »

Inconceivable wrote:
Gazelam wrote:There is no scripture or authoritative statements made that say Christ was married or had children, merely alot of educated speculation.


Gaz,

You are calling apostles of the Lord Jesus Christ Liars? Yes indeed.

What qualifies you to say that Orson Hyde and Jedediah M. Grant were not speaking the mind and will of the Lord?

Jump in my time machine and we'll visit the conferences where they are stating this doctrine. Please feel free to interupt their discourses and defy their "authoritative statements" as a lot of "educated speculation". You can even call Hyde the great blasphemer.

I double dog dare you.

Your statement may work in the Relief society class you attend but not in a place where the information is readily available.

I discover that some of the Eastern papers represent me as a great
blasphemer, because I said, in my lecture on Marriage, at our last
Conference, that Jesus Christ was married at Cana of Galilee, that Mary,
Martha, and others were his wives, and that he begat children
.

All that I have to say in reply to that charge is this - they
worship a Savior that is too pure and holy to fulfil the commands of his
Father. I worship one that is just pure and holy enough "to fulfil all
righteousness;" not only the righteous law of baptism, but the still more
righteous and important law "to multiply and replenish the earth." Startle
not at this! for even the Father himself honored that law by coming down
to Mary, without a natural body, and begetting a son; and if Jesus begat
children, he only "did that which he had seen his Father do."

Journal of Discourses: Orson Hyde March 18, 1855 SLC



Pass on still further in their history, and look at their course and conduct, if you will believe the
writers that lived in that age. What does old Celsus say, who was physician in the first century,
whose medical works are esteemed very highly at the present time. His works on theology were
burned with fire by the Catholics, they were so shocked at what they called their impiety. Celsus
was a heathen philosopher; and what does he say upon the subject of Christ and his Apostles, and
their belief? He says, "The grand reason why the Gentiles and philosophers of his school persecuted
Jesus Christ, was, because he had so many wives; there were Elizabeth, and Mary, and a host of
others that followed him." After Jesus went from the stage of action, the Apostles followed the
example of their master. For instance, John the beloved disciple, writes in his second Epistle, "Unto
the elect lady and her children, whom I love in the truth." Again, he says, "Having many things to
write unto you (or communicate), I would not write with paper and ink: but I trust to come unto you,
and speak face to face, that our joy may be full." Again -"The children of thy elect sister greet thee.

" This ancient philosopher says they were both John's wives. Paul says, "Mine answer to them that
do examine me is this:

Have we not power to lead about a sister, a wife, as well as other apostles, and as the
brethren of the Lord, and Cephas." He, according to Celsus, had a numerous train of wives.

The grand reason of the burst of public sentiment in anathemas upon Christ and his
disciples, causing his crucifixion, was evidently based upon polygamy, according to the testimony
of the philosophers who rose in that age. A belief in the doctrine of a plurality of wives caused the
persecution of Jesus and his followers. We might almost think they were "Mormons."


JD 1:346 Jedediah M. Grant August 7, 1853


If you have read this before you did not understand it.

Flame off.


But wait! Those guys are dead, right? Gaz will always have his Trump card, spirit or no spirit. Watch. I bet he plays his hand at the next post.
I detest my loose style and my libertine sentiments. I thank God, who has removed from my eyes the veil...
Adrian Beverland
_Inconceivable
_Emeritus
Posts: 3405
Joined: Mon Dec 04, 2006 5:44 am

Re: Wairing your fireproof suit?

Post by _Inconceivable »

gramps wrote:..Those guys are dead, right? Gaz will always have his Trump card, spirit or no spirit. Watch. I bet he plays his hand at the next post.


You just stole what he calls his thunder.


I think he took his ball and went home. :(


But just in case he comes back..

Gaz, I triple dog dare you.

let's see if he sticks his tongue to the flagpole again..
_Inconceivable
_Emeritus
Posts: 3405
Joined: Mon Dec 04, 2006 5:44 am

Post by _Inconceivable »

So far as the cheezy cartoon goes, it was pretty much dead on (except about Joseph Smith shedding his blood for his followers). Still, I'd give it two thumbs down.
_mocnarf
_Emeritus
Posts: 304
Joined: Tue May 08, 2007 6:11 pm

Post by _mocnarf »

Does anyone know if there is a way to save a copy of YouTube videos to
one's own computer? This is one that I would like to keep a copy of.
_Nephi

Post by _Nephi »

mocnarf wrote:Does anyone know if there is a way to save a copy of YouTube videos to
one's own computer? This is one that I would like to keep a copy of.

If you use firefox, download a Addon for the browser called videodownloader. It is fairly self explanatory.
_Gazelam
_Emeritus
Posts: 5659
Joined: Thu Oct 26, 2006 2:06 am

Re: Here is the quote and source

Post by _Gazelam »

mocnarf wrote:
msnobody wrote:"I have more to boast about than ever any man had. I am the only man that has ever been able to keep a whole church together since the days of Adam. A large majority of the whole have stood by me. Neither Paul, John, Peter, nor Jesus ever did it. I boast that no man ever did such a work as I. The followers of Jesus ran away from Him; but the Latter-day Saints never ran away from me yet. You know my daily walk and conversation."
History of the Church, vol. 6, p. 408-409


Thanks, msnobody, I knew I had read that before ans some post in the past but could not remember the source document.

Gazelam, does that quote clear up your confussion?



If you'll look at my post in the Celestial Forum entitled "The Last Charge" you'll get a little history behind what hes saying here. He had just rolled off the authority of the church upon the Twelve and set up the church which is never to be thrown down again. I would think that would be due cause to celebrate, but perhaps like Moses stating that it was "He" who brought the water form the rock, Joseph went a tad bit too far in his excitement.

Christ Himself had stated that the church he established with the meridian Twelve would not last. Joseph had accomplished the work asked of him by God in restoring the gospel, and he had due cause to be excited about it.

The Last Charge: http://mormondiscussions.com/discuss/vi ... php?t=2482
We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light. - Plato
_ozemc
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Posts: 397
Joined: Tue Nov 07, 2006 3:21 pm

Re: Here is the quote and source

Post by _ozemc »

Gazelam wrote:
mocnarf wrote:
msnobody wrote:"I have more to boast about than ever any man had. I am the only man that has ever been able to keep a whole church together since the days of Adam. A large majority of the whole have stood by me. Neither Paul, John, Peter, nor Jesus ever did it. I boast that no man ever did such a work as I. The followers of Jesus ran away from Him; but the Latter-day Saints never ran away from me yet. You know my daily walk and conversation."
History of the Church, vol. 6, p. 408-409


Thanks, msnobody, I knew I had read that before ans some post in the past but could not remember the source document.

Gazelam, does that quote clear up your confussion?



If you'll look at my post in the Celestial Forum entitled "The Last Charge" you'll get a little history behind what he's saying here. He had just rolled off the authority of the church upon the Twelve and set up the church which is never to be thrown down again. I would think that would be due cause to celebrate, but perhaps like Moses stating that it was "He" who brought the water form the rock, Joseph went a tad bit too far in his excitement.

Christ Himself had stated that the church he established with the meridian Twelve would not last. Joseph had accomplished the work asked of him by God in restoring the gospel, and he had due cause to be excited about it.

The Last Charge: http://mormondiscussions.com/discuss/vi ... php?t=2482


Excuse me?

Do you not know this from the Bible:

(http://bibleresources.Bible.com/passage ... ersion1=31)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

From Matthew 16 (verses 13-20)

13When Jesus came to the region of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, "Who do people say the Son of Man is?"

14They replied, "Some say John the Baptist; others say Elijah; and still others, Jeremiah or one of the prophets."

15"But what about you?" he asked. "Who do you say I am?"

16Simon Peter answered, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God."

17Jesus replied, "Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by man, but by my Father in heaven.

18And I tell you that you are Peter,[c] and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades[d] will not overcome it.[e]

19I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be[f] bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be[g] loosed in heaven."

20Then he warned his disciples not to tell anyone that he was the Christ.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I bolded the pertinent passage.

He most definitely did NOT "state that the church he established with the meridian Twelve would not last", as you say above.
"What does God need with a starship?" - Captain James T. Kirk

Most people would like to be delivered from temptation but would like it to keep in touch. - Robert Orben
_AmazingDisgrace
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Joined: Fri May 04, 2007 3:01 pm

Post by _AmazingDisgrace »

msnobody wrote:"I have more to boast about than ever any man had. I am the only man that has ever been able to keep a whole church together since the days of Adam. A large majority of the whole have stood by me. Neither Paul, John, Peter, nor Jesus ever did it. I boast that no man ever did such a work as I. The followers of Jesus ran away from Him; but the Latter-day Saints never ran away from me yet. You know my daily walk and conversation."
History of the Church, vol. 6, p. 408-409


This quote has always reminded me of the Beatles' "we're more popular than Jesus" comment. It's pretty pompous, but he's nowhere close to claiming that he's the savior of the world.

It would be interesting if somebody re-edited the clip to leave out the deprecated doctrine (Adam-god, Jesus was married, etc.) or at least clarify that those are things that have been taught in the past. If somebody wants to make the actual doctrine look wacky, they should let it speak for itself.
"Every post you can hitch your faith on is a pie in the sky, chock full of lies, a tool we devise to make sinking stones fly"
The Shins - A Comet Appears
_Gazelam
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Joined: Thu Oct 26, 2006 2:06 am

ozemc

Post by _Gazelam »

2 Thessalonians

1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

that's one example, that the second coming of Christ will not occur until the Church was to fall away. And also in fullfillment of prophecy Joseph Smith restored the gospel as an Elias before the second coming.
We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light. - Plato
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