Angry Apologists

[_beastie]

The one thing I have noticed is how trigger happy they are in labeling a new poster as a troll.

So what if someone IS a troll?? Wouldn't it be better to assume the best for each poster, answer the questions honestly and kindly. Are their ego's so fragile that the idea of a troll pulling one over on them is a serious threat? Who cares? Let the troll have him moment of glory. At least all the other serious questioners won't be offended and run off with a bitter taste in their mouth.

You know what's funny - there's a group of RFM posters who do the exact same thing. If a new poster shows up and says something that could POSSIBLY be interpreted as not going along with the group-think that a group of RFM posters have determine must exist, the person is labeled a troll and closet believer. As I was.

Can you believe that? The idea of anyone suspecting that I am a closet LDS believer is extraordinary.

I was trying to explain to DCP on another thread how this results in a vicious cycle. Treating people who are genuinely struggling with legitimate issues like "trolls" creates bitter and harsh feelings, which they then carry over to places like this board or RFM.

[_skippy the dead]

I think angry apologists are True Believers who are reacting to what they perceive as a personal attack on their being. They have so enmeshed their identity with their belief system, they have blurred the boundaries between self and Mormonism.

Well, to answer the "why are they so angry" question, I believe this likely hits the nail on the head. It seems to be a pretty common phenomenon for people to think they are what they believe ("I'm a Catholic" / "I'm a Jew" / "I'm a Mormon" - why isn't it "I believe in Catholicism" or "I attend a Mormon church"?)

It's sad, really. It's as though the belief is what's important to these people rather than the people themselves.

People can attack what I believe (and do) as much as they want. I invite it; it's part of how I learn. It's silly to regard a belief attack as a personal attack.

I suppose that perhaps the Mormon persecution complex plays into it somewhat as well. It seems that there is a segment that almost basks in the light of persecution. Just looking at the front page of MAD right now, there are several "persecution" threads:

"Who Says Mormons Are Not Christian?: Kicked out of soup Kitchen for being Mormon!"
"Are Mormons Capable Of Sincere Christian Behavior?: Or, are we just pretenders?"
"Plan To Build LDS Chapel In Brookline, Mass. Draws Opposition"
"And You Wonder Why People Hate Us Ldsers!"

Moving to the second page:
"Appalling Treatment Of LDS Student At Purdue"

Plus, several other threads touch on the persecution issue.

I would imagine that if you spend enough time thinking that everybody is out to get you, you get good and angry when you perceive that they are. There's a mindset involved that encourages defensiveness and striking back. And for those who camp out on message boards all day, they have several opportunities to react and I suppose that it builds, resulting in the anger.

[_beastie]

I would imagine that if you spend enough time thinking that everybody is out to get you, you get good and angry when you perceive that they are. There's a mindset involved that encourages defensiveness and striking back. And for those who camp out on message boards all day, they have several opportunities to react and I suppose that it builds, resulting in the anger.

Hmm, maybe this is a result of all the attention the persecutions of early Mormons receives in Mormonism? Maybe modern Mormons have an inferiority complex about persecution.

[_Dr. Shades]

People can attack what I believe (and do) as much as they want. I invite it; it's part of how I learn. It's silly to regard a belief attack as a personal attack.

It seems to me that when one is able to adopt that mindset, one has successfully transitioned from childhood to adulthood.

[_AmazingDisgrace]

In the framework of religion, believing is supposed to be something that a person can do, as an act of will. Otherwise, God couldn't justly punish unbelievers for withholding their belief. So when a believer encounters a person who does not believe, especially a person who is intimately familiar with the teachings of the church, the only reasonable conclusion is that the unbeliever is willfully choosing to make a morally wrong choice. When apologists seem angry, I think, in many cases, they're actually expressing "righteous indignation" against people who they perceive as committing a serious sin.

[_skippy the dead]

I would imagine that if you spend enough time thinking that everybody is out to get you, you get good and angry when you perceive that they are. There's a mindset involved that encourages defensiveness and striking back. And for those who camp out on message boards all day, they have several opportunities to react and I suppose that it builds, resulting in the anger.

Hmm, maybe this is a result of all the attention the persecutions of early Mormons receives in Mormonism? Maybe modern Mormons have an inferiority complex about persecution.

It's not just persecution of early Mormons - a good number of Mormons see a current, on-going persecution of "the Saints" (which only further proves the church is true, of course). And yes, modern Mormons do have that complex now. I believe it enables them to maintain a connection to the early Mormons, and retain their idea that Satan is working against them in the "last days."

[_ozemc]

I would imagine that if you spend enough time thinking that everybody is out to get you, you get good and angry when you perceive that they are. There's a mindset involved that encourages defensiveness and striking back. And for those who camp out on message boards all day, they have several opportunities to react and I suppose that it builds, resulting in the anger.

Hmm, maybe this is a result of all the attention the persecutions of early Mormons receives in Mormonism? Maybe modern Mormons have an inferiority complex about persecution.

So, you think maybe today's Mormons don't feel worthy enough because they haven't been as persecuted as the early Mormons were?

That might lead to them to not being worthy enough for the CK, perhaps?

[_beastie]

So, you think maybe today's Mormons don't feel worthy enough because they haven't been as persecuted as the early Mormons were?

That might lead to them to not being worthy enough for the CK, perhaps?

Yeah, something like that.

I remember, as a believer pondering the persecutions of the early saints and their trials crossing the plains, chastising myself for not even being able to _______ (fill in whatever "sin of omission" I was currently feeling guilty about - usually not doing enough missionary work). So I did wonder if I had has much faith as they did.

And then, as skippy noted, modern Mormons are taught that these are the last days, and persecution is supposed to escalate. So I guess they're anxious to see it to fulfill prophesy, too.

[_Sethbag]

I think AmazingDisgrace is onto something. The former TBMs among us here know full well what it's like in an environment where unbelief itself is considered tantamount to a moral defect. I think there's something to be said for the notion that to some TBMs, the attitude toward someone who has gone from belief to unbelief is very much like the attitude toward someone they discover has a secret porn stash, or they see them at a party drinking a beer, or smoking a cigarette.

[_beastie]

unbelief itself is considered tantamount to a moral defect

that sums it up brilliantly

And this is probably why Mormons are loathe to be open about moments of doubt with each other (except secretly on the internet, of course).

In a culture in which one is taught that one can KNOW the truth beyond a shadow of a doubt, and that God will impart that knowledge to any sincere person, if you don't have it, well, there you have it. Moral defect.

We know that several angry apologists imagine themselves doing some holy battle for God on the internet. (talk about taking yourself too seriously, a defect some apologists see only in exmormons and ignore in their own group)

Maybe they imagine themselves like Book of Mormon prophets, angrily exposing the sins of the current bad guys... with all the attendant rewards in heaven waiting. How many times do they refer to Jesus' moments of anger in the Bible to justify their harshness? (answer, too many times to count)