More Excommunications

[_harmony]

Curiously, I am wondering what you mean when you use the word "know."

Matthew 7:14

I'm sorry, I meant I was curious as to your understanding of using the word "know" in any context, not in what you professed to know in this particular instance.

To know the mind and will of God is not a privileged or difficult task, to be abdicated to only a few old men who claim a special calling. We are part of Him, as our children are part of us. As each child carries a part of the parents, so we carry a part of God with us always. Seeking God and knowing of God are internal processes, not external. No one finds God externally. What they find externally is men and only men. Any one who says they "know" God, and doesn't acknowledge that to know God is to know oneself seeks dominion over men, and is not trustworthy. Seek inwardly, trust only yourself.

[_moksha]

This does not happen at all. Witness Harry Reid. He has done far worse than many who are ex'd and yet he remains a member.

But, but... he has committed the sin of ***gasp*** holding political views contrary to the John Birch consensus. Unfortunately, if the Church were to come out against him, it would boost his political status in Nevada, as well as wipe out any chances for Mitt. No, it is much better for the Church to act with as much Christian love and acceptance as possible.

[_bcspace]

This does not happen at all. Witness Harry Reid. He has done far worse than many who are ex'd and yet he remains a member.

But, but... he has committed the sin of ***gasp*** holding political views contrary to the John Birch consensus.

John Birch has nothing to do with it. Among other things, he lambasted all those who supported a marriage amendment on the same day Ballard was in Washington to give the LDS Church's support.

Of course simply being a democratic puts on in support of many things contrary to LDS doctrine.

Unfortunately, if the Church were to come out against him, it would boost his political status in Nevada, as well as wipe out any chances for Mitt. No, it is much better for the Church to act with as much Christian love and acceptance as possible.

Christian love includes excommunication as anyone knowledgable in the scriptures would know.

[_Livingstone22]

we know the way is narrow

Curiously, I am wondering what you mean when you use the word "know."

Matthew 7:14

I'm sorry, I meant I was curious as to your understanding of using the word "know" in any context, not in what you professed to know in this particular instance.

In this, the religious context.....Alma 32:26-34

Okay, thanks; I've been looking for that passage. I have been studying knowledge within religious contexts, and it seems that knowledge's justification in religious things are slow at best. It seems much like a long journey--and I would say that most people need to not be held to things that they don't know....and I would say that most don't, as it is such a long journey. I have met many people who, after years of believing they know things, find they don't, and have to start over. And this is the whole thing about this post....how can you excommunicate people if they don't have that "perfect knowledge"? And how could they know if they know or not? I have a friend (no, it is not me) who, after years of consideration, fully believes in his heart that after prayer and consideration, he has received the revelation that being homosexual is the right thing, and that God fully accepts his lifestyle choice. He told his stake president who has challenged this as a false revelation. He responded that if it is, then he doesn't have any reason to believe that his testimony of the Book of Mormon or the Church isn't under the same condition....how can he know either then? He is currently awaiting an excommunication court. I personally don't think he has (although he has faith what he's doing is right) anywhere knowledge on the truths of these things, and therefore shouldn't be excommunicated.....but I don't know, I had another friend who is severely mentally ill (with self-destructive behaviours during severe depressive and manic episodes--including causing irreversible damage at the hand of a knife in her own hand), but she was excommunicated notwithstanding.

[_bcspace]

To know the mind and will of God is not a privileged or difficult task, to be abdicated to only a few old men who claim a special calling. We are part of Him, as our children are part of us.

Indeed. Hence Ephesians 4:11-14.

As each child carries a part of the parents, so we carry a part of God with us always. Seeking God and knowing of God are internal processes, not external. No one finds God externally. What they find externally is men and only men. Any one who says they "know" God,.....seeks dominion over men, and is not trustworthy. Seek inwardly, trust only yourself.

I never said otherwise. However, when one finds God, one finds that God has an organization by which extrapersonal truths are disemminated and such truths do not originate from within but rather are confirmed from within.

and doesn't acknowledge that to know God is to know oneself

Depends on the context. Literally, since God is an individual Person, one does not know God if one knows only oneself. That is the height of selfishness.

[_moksha]

This does not happen at all. Witness Harry Reid. He has done far worse than many who are ex'd and yet he remains a member.

But, but... he has committed the sin of ***gasp*** holding political views contrary to the John Birch consensus.

John Birch has nothing to do with it. Among other things, he lambasted all those who supported a marriage amendment on the same day Ballard was in Washington to give the LDS Church's support.

Of course simply being a democratic puts on in support of many things contrary to LDS doctrine.

Yeah, like there wasn't controversy even among LDS ranks over this amendment. The Church in America should hold the members right to hold separate political convictions inviolate.

Unfortunately, if the Church were to come out against him, it would boost his political status in Nevada, as well as wipe out any chances for Mitt. No, it is much better for the Church to act with as much Christian love and acceptance as possible.

Christian love includes excommunication as anyone knowledgeable in the scriptures would know.

Excommunication should never be wily nilly and should never be used to enforce political consensus. We should be a Church of worship and not a cult of unyielding obedience. To do otherwise would be to damage to mission of the Church.

[_Livingstone22]

This does not happen at all. Witness Harry Reid. He has done far worse than many who are ex'd and yet he remains a member.

But, but... he has committed the sin of ***gasp*** holding political views contrary to the John Birch consensus.

John Birch has nothing to do with it. Among other things, he lambasted all those who supported a marriage amendment on the same day Ballard was in Washington to give the LDS Church's support.

Of course simply being a democratic puts on in support of many things contrary to LDS doctrine.

Yeah, like there wasn't controversy even among LDS ranks over this amendment. The Church in America should hold the members right to hold separate political convictions inviolate.

Unfortunately, if the Church were to come out against him, it would boost his political status in Nevada, as well as wipe out any chances for Mitt. No, it is much better for the Church to act with as much Christian love and acceptance as possible.

Christian love includes excommunication as anyone knowledgeable in the scriptures would know.

Excommunication should never be wily nilly and should never be used to enforce political consensus. We should be a Church of worship and not a cult of unyielding obedience. To do otherwise would be to damage to mission of the Church.

Actually, in the case of Harry Ried (and he said this himself) his duty was to the people of Nevada--to do their will, not his own or the church's. To go against this duty would be highly dishonest and corrupt...and that is contrary to the church's teachings. I'm proud of him.

[_bcspace]

Yeah, like there wasn't controversy even among LDS ranks over this amendment.

Did I say otherwise?

The Church in America should hold the members right to hold separate political convictions inviolate.

Not when one publically bashes the Church or teaches against major doctrines.

Excommunication should never be wily nilly

Excommunication should be applied in all cases like the death penalty should be applied for all murder.

and should never be used to enforce political consensus.

Of course not. Excommunication should be used only when someone publicaly and voiciferously opposes the Church such as in the Harry Reid case or any democratic politician.

We should be a Church of worship and not a cult of unyielding obedience. To do otherwise would be to damage to mission of the Church.

The mission of the Church is damaged when it's members are allowed to remain as members and oppose the doctrines.

Actually, in the case of Harry Ried (and he said this himself) his duty was to the people of Nevada--to do their will, not his own or the church's.

Then he would be personally harmed by excommmunication. It's a win win situation.

To go against this duty would be highly dishonest and corrupt

To not ex him would be hypocritical and a violation of scripture.

...and that is contrary to the church's teachings.

Excommunication for these very reasons is part of Church teachings.

I'm proud of him.

Birds of a feather.......Romans 1:32

[_Livingstone22]

I'm proud of him.

Birds of a feather.......Romans 1:32

Oh my God, you had better speak to what you are insinuating right away....you have made some extremely serious charges to me, even insinuating I am "worthy of death." If this is the case, never speak to anything I say here ever again, and you will be reported immediately to the moderators. I hope everyone here recognizes what you have said.

[Guest]

I'm proud of him.

Birds of a feather.......Romans 1:32

Oh my God, you had better speak to what you are insinuating right away....you have made some extremely serious charges to me, even insinuating I am "worthy of death." If this is the case, never speak to anything I say here ever again, and you will be reported immediately to the moderators. I hope everyone here recognizes what you have said.

LOL! Is it a sin to reference the Bible? If Paul puts those who support/applaud/facilitate these sins (which include the homosexual lifestyle choice) in the same category as those who actually commit them, what of it?

by the way, I advocate the death penalty only for murderers, traitors and spies against the United States, and those who take away free agency. Being a TBM, I also believe all LDS scriptures and that includes the New Testament. Can you handle it?