When a person has dealt with extreme pain or abuse in a situation, and they spend a period of time acting out either towards that abuser or towards a proxy (something that represents that abuse or reminds them of that abuse), at what point are they held accountable for their actions, and ultimately asked to be responsible for what they say and do?
I'm not certain when that time comes. For some people it never does. There are some people that just don't grasp that we are who we chose to be. I absolutely believe that we ultimately decide who we are. We all can look to those we admire and try to emulate them. Recognize our shortcomings and work to overcome them by not acting out in ways (behaviors) that we no longer wish to have as qualities.
One of the sickest things to me is a person who abuses because he or she was abused. I was abused, and yet I do not spend my days lashing out at my mother or those who represent her. And it's not because I'm weak, it's because I love myself enough to walk with integrity. I may write about it, but ultimately I will not harm her or her kin. It's not the higher path to take. And I won't go hurting other people because I'm too weak to face my issues with my mother (which I'm not).
I don't see people that lash out as sick. I view them as wounded and not having arrived at the point in their life where they're ready to move on from the past. Quite frankly some people just aren't bright enough to recognize that they are perpetuating their own abuse in how they treat others. You see this in family dynamics quite often, and it's tragic. I think there are others that choose to lash out to create a sense of justice (in their minds) and even the score. I can understand that mentality... I've had that mentality in the past. It was not a pleasant way to live. Letting past injustice or hurts go is (I believe) the only way to really ever heal oneself.
I've just seen a few instances in which someone is being coddled because of "horrible" experiences while that person seeks to demean others. And that person isn't unable to control themselves...yet they're not really being asked to either.
I agree with you here. I am definitely a coddler... but I understand that righteous indignation and the fury that may accompany that sometimes needs an outlet. That you choose to rise above that is an indicator of your character GIMR. Some (myself included) revel in causing pain to others when we carried our own.
Surely you are an example for all of us that this is not necessary (nor particularly helpful) to reach serenity.
Hey Book of Mormon! Thanks for joining in, you too, KA.
I think that the best thing we can do in life is to live consciously, and I don’t think many people know how to do that. I’m lucky, growing up as I did, with few people around me to distract me from my thoughts; I had a lot of time to introspect. I’m comfortable looking at my warts in the mirror. Believe me, I know my faults, and I have to also examine those things I perceive to be character defects that may not be…or they may. Ignoring them isn’t going to give me the answers I seek. If I’m haughty and presumptuous, I’d better fix that. If it’s that I’m way too self-centered or self-critical, hey, I’d better fix that.
Our goal in life should be joy. I don’t always equate this with happiness, though. You can have joy and not necessarily be happy, in my opinion. Joy to me is hope in the midst of the storm, and peace in the ability to walk forward, even when it hurts.
I got out of bed this morning, and I almost fainted. I'm tired of the health issues...but I still get my behind out of bed. If I fall doing so, oh well. I roll back under the covers for a while, then I try again. I don't just lay there and refuse to put the soles of my feet to the floor again because I once fell. That doesn't make sense to me.
Book of Mormon, I swear I don’t see in me what you do, I just don’t really target people heavily because I got it so much growing up. It just seems like common sense to me, if it hurts you, it’ll probably hurt someone else, so don’t do it. But I’m also aware of the fact that I hide a lot from most people. I call my character “multifaceted”, I didn’t realize until recently just how much I had the capacity to be “fake”, having people think that it was all okay, while I went home, shut the door, and was miserable.
I’m all for justice, but not necessarily evening the score. And I think that’s because I realized in my personal situation, that the “score” was already too high against me for me to ever even it out on my own…short of taking a loaded weapon to a family gathering. Obviously, that’s not the answer (but there were times in my teens when I thought of it). Instead of trying to get those ingrates that are the women of my mom’s generation to see “the truth”, I just focus on not being like them. I catch hell for it, but ultimately my life will be more promising than theirs. I once told my brother that they were the walking dead, simply breathing, but their lives were in essence over because of the choices they’d made. There was no hope for them, they’re just waiting for that last inhalation. It’s cruel to say out loud, but true…but they’re not moving forward at all. They just exist from year to year, and nothing changes.
It’s like that in the church in many instances; there are things which change, but not a whole lot when it comes to the dogma of the institution. Why rail against that? Move away from the beast, and do something else. I know that there will be people within the institution who will insist on not letting you go, or try to break your peace; again, my family situation is just like that. But again, there are the choices involved. You can either let them get to you and ruin your joy, or you can mentally give them the finger, and move on.
The more I focused on the church and what it couldn’t give me, the more reasons I had to cry. The more I focus on what my parents didn’t give me, the more reasons I have to cry. The more I look in the mirror each day and be grateful that I can finally do that without wanting to break it, the more I focus on my potential and plan my future outside the pain, the happier and more hopeful I am.
I’m a coddler too…to those who really truly can’t break away from their issues yet. That used to be me. But those people aren’t vindictive, they’re just in pain. Lashing out in anger once in a while because it hurts so bad is one thing, responding like a little beeatch every chance you get is another. I can’t find myself feeling sorry for those who feel the need to slap someone all the time, and at times I’m grateful that some of these people are on the other end of a computer, because I’d definitely do some pimp slapping myself.
Where’s the accountability to one’s self? Why must a person choose to let their past continue to harm them? I have a friend who once told me that he was choosing to remain a lonely alcoholic, because he didn’t want to go through the work of dealing with his issues. I jumped his butt, and asked him who the hell he thought he was to not only befriend me and decide to just drop at my feet after I had learned to love him, but also who he thought he was to take himself away from his family in that way. Made him think. He drinks much less now. Tough love works sometimes...he knows better than to bring that excuse in front of me, every time he starts going on and on about how nothing works for him, I just remind him that it's because he's determined that it should be this way, and ignored every other option open to him.
I believe you can tell the difference between those who cannot escape the pain and the psychological sado-masochists.
Each one has to find his peace from within. And peace to be real must be unaffected by outside circumstances. -Ghandi
Its a hard one to answer fully, isn't it? I think that's partly because there are so many kinds of abuse and abusers...for example, physical abuse from an individual is quite different from emotional abuse, and abuse from
individuals is different from abuse suffered at the hands of a group or an institution of some sort. So the best, healthiest response is hard to calculate in any precise fashion given the variables involved.
For me, I didn't react outwardly very much at all to the forms of abuse (mostly psychological and emotional, but occaisionally physical) I got as a child. Some was from parents, some was from school "friends." Very little of this, with the exception of social ostracism was "church" related, although that certainly left its mark (I should say here that one of my brothers was routinely mocked and even physcially beaten by his "school mates" for not attending priesthood meetings or boy scouts or whatever he was supposed to be doing around age 12. I guess that's why I think I got off "lighter" on that score).
The worst things were all part of my mother's inability to .... whatever. Love, parent, act reasonably to other human beings. I was never beaten, just belittled and subjected to "little" physical torments: slaps, pinching, hair pulling, shoves, etc. The result was that I kept my feelings mostly inside: I certainly was filled with resentment, but any minor "acting out" I did (talking back, for instance) just escalated the problem exponentially. So I kept it inside with all the costs that go along with that.
The result was that I hated myself about as much as I hated her; that and I developed a near pathological inabilty to deal with physical violence---to fight back. Once when one of my brothers was about 13, she pinched or slapped him one too many times and he turned around and decked her. She never touched him again. I was so proud of him! But I knew I could never do anything like that myself, and I've always seen that as a kind of weakness.
I've never hit anyone in anger in my life except once and it was pretty much self-defense. A bad boyfriend was shoving me around and I just hauled off and punched him in the nose and drew blood. It felt great. It was precisely the right thing to do, too, and I wish I could have done things like that earlier in my llfe, not necessarily slapped my mom silly, but at least been able to physically stand up to some of my hateful school mates...
From the Ernest L. Wilkinson Diaries: "ELW dreams he's spattered w/ grease. Hundreds steal his greasy pants."
Thank you for posting and sharing your experiences and thoughts. I think it's brave of those who have responded to this thread to have given some insight into what they've struggled with, it shows that most all of us have been mistreated at one point in time.
I still think that if one ever wants to be happy or fulfilled, no matter what may have happened, you have to face your pain. I know there's bound to be at least one on this thread who's convinced that I can't relate, but my abuse has been physical, emotiona, pyschological, sexual, and spiritual. I'm not She-ra. I'm just stubborn. If you want something bad enough, you're going to eventually find out a way to get it, and it's no different with healing. Not knowing a way doesn't necessarily mean that eventually a way won't present itself.
I'd type more, but I'm resting at the moment, not feeling too well. Will check in tomorrow. Later peeps.
Each one has to find his peace from within. And peace to be real must be unaffected by outside circumstances. -Ghandi
GIMR wrote:Hey Bond, [...] Thanks for considering the question, Bond.
Uh...you're welcome GIMR!
(I think you mean Bourne not Bond...but thanks for thinking of me! ;)
"Whatever appears to be against the Book of Mormon is going to be overturned at some time in the future. So we can be pretty open minded."-charity 3/7/07
Mercury wrote:It goes as far as reality dictates. that's how far.
Those who cry foul at those who call b***s*** are not unwarranted in attacking others. Those who balk and cry and moan after being "attacked" need to grow the hell up.
You sound so happy. Ironically though, your 2,000+ posts really don't match what's below. You need to think on that instead of always lashing out. Perhaps there are people whom you see as enemies who just really want you to find joy...or at least get the below back:
If you are currently Mormon and considering leaving the organization, also consider your happiness is greater outside the faith. Once you leave the world opens up to you. Your not angry at everything around you, your worry disappears completely. Its the best decision I ever made for myself.
You don't bring across the above sentiment, Merc. You can say all you want to about my character, Nehor's Bond's anyone who disagrees with you, but I guarantee you, we're happier than you are...and it's not because we're disillusioned, it's because we're whole.
Can you grasp that?
WHat the hell is wrong with you? Seriously. Go talk to the charge nurse and get a shrink up there so they can talk about your mood swings and constant need to push your magic fantasyland religion onto others who do not share your sad apocalyptic worldview.
And crawling on the planet's face Some insects called the human race Lost in time And lost in space...and meaning
I'm going out on a limb here to ask you a question. What adult in your childhood did you have a good relationship with?
Jersey Girl
Hey Jersey Girl,
I had good relationships with teachers, mainly music teachers, as that was my talent, my great-aunt (but she passed when I was about ten), as well as my mom's first fiancee.
:-) Perhaps you can let me know why you asked such a question.
Bond and Bourne, I cannot read and I think this is at least the fifth time I've mixed the two of you up. Can you forgive me, I see two power males and my vision goes fuzzy.
Each one has to find his peace from within. And peace to be real must be unaffected by outside circumstances. -Ghandi
Mercury wrote: WHat the hell is wrong with you? Seriously. Go talk to the charge nurse and get a shrink up there so they can talk about your mood swings and constant need to push your magic fantasyland religion onto others who do not share your sad apocalyptic worldview.
Mercury! Is this really necessary? GIMR has NEVER pushed her faith upon me! I've not seen her doing that either. She defends herself and her faith! I don't believe her worldview is sad in the least!
Her worldview appears, to me, to be optimistic despite trails and tribulations that would have the rest of us frothing over with anger and hatred! She speaks volumes of her own character that she is SO well grounded despite her problems!