Looking for some documentation

[_Scottie]

Scottie, I know it's sad, and I don't know your girlfriend, but I would have to go with Kimberly Ann on this one. If she won't like you for who you are, briefs and all, now, if you have to put on an act to talk to her, it's likely not going to end well. And if your relationship becomes more serious and she finds out the depths of your unbelief, she might panic and dump you, remembering countless YW lessons about getting married in the temple and dumping boyfriends who won't be able to take her there (there is actully a lesson on that, trust me, and it seems that your GF is easily impressed by what she hears at church); you never know with deeply ingrained TBMs. I got dumped when I was a gentile for no good reason and made to feel like an unworthy piece of crap. It was a very bad experience. I know giving advice is stupid, but life has shown that it is a very likely outcome when you're dating a TBM while not being one yourself.

Love sucks, doesn't it?

[_Zoidberg]

Scottie, I know it's sad, and I don't know your girlfriend, but I would have to go with Kimberly Ann on this one. If she won't like you for who you are, briefs and all, now, if you have to put on an act to talk to her, it's likely not going to end well. And if your relationship becomes more serious and she finds out the depths of your unbelief, she might panic and dump you, remembering countless YW lessons about getting married in the temple and dumping boyfriends who won't be able to take her there (there is actully a lesson on that, trust me, and it seems that your GF is easily impressed by what she hears at church); you never know with deeply ingrained TBMs. I got dumped when I was a gentile for no good reason and made to feel like an unworthy piece of crap. It was a very bad experience. I know giving advice is stupid, but life has shown that it is a very likely outcome when you're dating a TBM while not being one yourself.

Love sucks, doesn't it?

When I met my now husband, I realized I never really loved the asshole who dumped me, so it all turned out for the best, actually. Good luck sorting things out with the girl, anyhow.

[_Scottie]

by the way, here are some quotes I got from MAD...

Joseph Smith said,
I teach them (the LDS people) correct principles and let them govern themselves.


- Brigham Young said,
“I am more afraid that this people have so much confidence in their leaders that they will not inquire for themselves of God whether they are led by Him. I am fearful they settle down in a state of blind self-security, trusting their eternal destiny in the hands of their leaders with a reckless confidence that in itself would thwart the purposes of God in their salvation…”(Journal of Discourses, vol. 19, p. 150. See also vol. 8, p.59 and vol.13, p. 171 for similar statements.)

-Joseph F. Smith said,
“We talk of obedience, but do we require any man or woman to ignorantly obey the counsels that are given? Do the First Presidency require it? No, never. What do they desire? That we may have our minds opened and our understanding enlarged, that we may comprehend all true principles for ourselves…”(Journal of Discourses, vol. 16, p.248).

-George Q. Cannon said,
“The Lord has set him [the prophet] to guide and to lead the people. To lead the people blindly without knowing themselves whither they are going? No, certainly not” (Journal of Discourses, vol.18, p. 256).

A common answer from Brigham Young:

Some may say, "Brethren, you who lead the Church, we have all confidence in you, we are not in the least afraid but what everything will go right under your superintendence; all the business matters will be transacted right; and if brother Brigham is satisfied with it, I am." I do not wish any Latter-day Saint in this world, nor in heaven, to be satisfied with anything I do, unless the Spirit of the Lord Jesus Christ, the spirit of revelation, makes them satisfied. I wish them to know for themselves and understand for themselves, for this would strengthen the faith that is within them. Suppose that the people were heedless, that they manifested no concern with regard to the things of the kingdom of God, but threw the whole burden upon the leaders of the people, saying, "If the brethren who take charge of matters are satisfied, we are," this is not pleasing in the sight of the Lord. Every man and woman in this kingdom ought to be satisfied with what we do, but they never should be satisfied without asking the Father, in the name of Jesus Christ, whether what we do is right. When you are inspired by the Holy Ghost you can understandingly say, that you are satisfied; and that is the only power that should cause you to exclaim that you are satisfied, for without that you do not know whether you should be satisfied or not. You may say that you are satisfied and believe that all is right, and your confidence may be almost unbounded in the authorities of the Church of Jesus Christ, but if you asked God, in the name of Jesus, and received knowledge for yourself, through the Holy Spirit, would it not strengthen your faith? It would. (JoD 3: apx. 45-51)

Now do not let the power of the devil deceive you. You may ask, "How shall we know, brother Brigham, whether you are telling us the truth or not? "Get the spirit of revelation, then you will know, and not without. Will you take my counsel? (though you may do as you please with regard to that) if you will, I can tell you what to do, and what all the Latter-day Saints-whom I have preached to from the first of my preaching, from the first of my testimony that Joseph Smith was a Prophet of God, and that the Book of Mormon is true-would have done if they had followed my counsel, and that is, to seek unto the Lord your God until He opens the visions of your minds, and lets the rays of eternity shine within you. (JoD 3:153)

[_Zoidberg]

by the way, here are some quotes I got from MAD...

I don't see how any of those are going to help you considering they are all from long-dead prophets, and we all know that the current FP just wants you to align yourself with their position on whatever issue.

[_Jason Bourne]

by the way, here are some quotes I got from MAD...

Joseph Smith said,
I teach them (the LDS people) correct principles and let them govern themselves.


- Brigham Young said,
“I am more afraid that this people have so much confidence in their leaders that they will not inquire for themselves of God whether they are led by Him. I am fearful they settle down in a state of blind self-security, trusting their eternal destiny in the hands of their leaders with a reckless confidence that in itself would thwart the purposes of God in their salvation…”(Journal of Discourses, vol. 19, p. 150. See also vol. 8, p.59 and vol.13, p. 171 for similar statements.)

-Joseph F. Smith said,
“We talk of obedience, but do we require any man or woman to ignorantly obey the counsels that are given? Do the First Presidency require it? No, never. What do they desire? That we may have our minds opened and our understanding enlarged, that we may comprehend all true principles for ourselves…”(Journal of Discourses, vol. 16, p.248).

-George Q. Cannon said,
“The Lord has set him [the prophet] to guide and to lead the people. To lead the people blindly without knowing themselves whither they are going? No, certainly not” (Journal of Discourses, vol.18, p. 256).

A common answer from Brigham Young:

Some may say, "Brethren, you who lead the Church, we have all confidence in you, we are not in the least afraid but what everything will go right under your superintendence; all the business matters will be transacted right; and if brother Brigham is satisfied with it, I am." I do not wish any Latter-day Saint in this world, nor in heaven, to be satisfied with anything I do, unless the Spirit of the Lord Jesus Christ, the spirit of revelation, makes them satisfied. I wish them to know for themselves and understand for themselves, for this would strengthen the faith that is within them. Suppose that the people were heedless, that they manifested no concern with regard to the things of the kingdom of God, but threw the whole burden upon the leaders of the people, saying, "If the brethren who take charge of matters are satisfied, we are," this is not pleasing in the sight of the Lord. Every man and woman in this kingdom ought to be satisfied with what we do, but they never should be satisfied without asking the Father, in the name of Jesus Christ, whether what we do is right. When you are inspired by the Holy Ghost you can understandingly say, that you are satisfied; and that is the only power that should cause you to exclaim that you are satisfied, for without that you do not know whether you should be satisfied or not. You may say that you are satisfied and believe that all is right, and your confidence may be almost unbounded in the authorities of the Church of Jesus Christ, but if you asked God, in the name of Jesus, and received knowledge for yourself, through the Holy Spirit, would it not strengthen your faith? It would. (JoD 3: apx. 45-51)

Now do not let the power of the devil deceive you. You may ask, "How shall we know, brother Brigham, whether you are telling us the truth or not? "Get the spirit of revelation, then you will know, and not without. Will you take my counsel? (though you may do as you please with regard to that) if you will, I can tell you what to do, and what all the Latter-day Saints-whom I have preached to from the first of my preaching, from the first of my testimony that Joseph Smith was a Prophet of God, and that the Book of Mormon is true-would have done if they had followed my counsel, and that is, to seek unto the Lord your God until He opens the visions of your minds, and lets the rays of eternity shine within you. (JoD 3:153)

The problem is one can actually find plenty of quotes to demonstrate both positions.

[Anonymous]

My girlfriend and I are in a battle about whether you should follow anything and everything a prophet says just because he's the prophet and he said it.

I've tried to relay the mopologist view on this, that you should take the words of the prophet, pray about them and then let the spirit tell you if it is true or not. I was making progress until she learned in Sunday School yesterday that we should always follow the prophet. Apparently the teacher had some quotes and scriptures to back this up.

So I need some references to back up my argument.

Can anyone help me out?

Get out of this while you still can. Seriously. I know, I know, it's none of my goddamn business, but you know exactly what you're getting yourself into, and is it really worth it?

You say "love", and I feel for you, man, but there's more where she came from. There are a lot of fish in the sea.

[_karl61]

yea, fish or cut bait.

[_Scottie]

My girlfriend and I are in a battle about whether you should follow anything and everything a prophet says just because he's the prophet and he said it.

I've tried to relay the mopologist view on this, that you should take the words of the prophet, pray about them and then let the spirit tell you if it is true or not. I was making progress until she learned in Sunday School yesterday that we should always follow the prophet. Apparently the teacher had some quotes and scriptures to back this up.

So I need some references to back up my argument.

Can anyone help me out?

Get out of this while you still can. Seriously. I know, I know, it's none of my goddamn business, but you know exactly what you're getting yourself into, and is it really worth it?

You say "love", and I feel for you, man, but there's more where she came from. There are a lot of fish in the sea.

I know, I know...

But, after 2 years of searching and lot and LOTS of dates, I've never met anyone that I connect with as well as we do. Other than being a TBM, she is the perfect girl for me.

I don't know if it's worth it, but for the time being, I'm willing to try and find out. Perhaps it will end up being too much and we'll break up, but, then again maybe I can make her see the light??

[_Scottie]

Oh, God.

I thought you broke up with Mormon chic? Does she know you're a complete unbeliever, Scottie? Or are you still feigning interest in the church so she'll date you?

Ditch the Mormon already and find a suitable girlfriend who will like you for who you are, Hanes briefs and all.

KA

Sorry, KA. I missed your post.

Well, I did break up with her, but then we got back together.

And I wear boxers, thank you very much!! :)

[_Sethbag]

Well good luck with her, Scottie, and I really mean that, from the heart. I hope it works out. I'm guessing this kind of relationship could only work if either she saw the light and left the church, or completely suspended her LDS mindset and decided to love and support a man who will not, and cannot take her to the Celestial Kingdom, who will not, and cannot excercise the blessings of the Priesthood in her home, and who will not or cannot raise her future children up in the Gospel. What do you think the likelihood is that she could be satisfied with these things? But still, like I said, I cross my fingers and wish you the best with her. Just remember, and I'm sure you need no reminder, she probably sees everything through LDS lenses, and will not be kindly disposed to you when the reality of your apostasy hits her. You will be judged.