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_Runtu
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Post by _Runtu »

Dr. Shades wrote:Isn't it interesting how spiritual experiences don't necessarily make you any more spiritual?

(Growing up in the church I'd always been taught the exact opposite, but when the rubber meets the road I guess the truth comes out.)
You've got it all wrong, Shades. When you've had spiritual experiences, it gives you the authority to be even more judgmental than before.

But you're right. Spirituality does not guarantee lack of cluelessness.
Runtu's Rincón

If you just talk, I find that your mouth comes out with stuff. -- Karl Pilkington
_truth dancer
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Post by _truth dancer »

The world is filled with people who claim and BELIEVE they have seen all sorts of magical, otherwordly beings.

So long as they still function fairly well in life, and don't bother anyone it is not a problem, NOR is it unusual.

I know a woman who believes, honestly and deeply, that her "energy" caused a major electrical outage in a major city. I know a person who claims to have seen Satan... complete with red forked tail... sitting in a child's room. We all hear of folks who claim to have been abducted by aliens. There are folks who truly believe they are from another planet. I know one guy who is actually a Shaman who believes there is a large loving dragon type thing in the center of the Earth... I could go on and on.

I'm not surprised there are those in the LDS community who believe they have special powers, are privy to exclusive information from God, can do magical things with their power, and who may see various spiritual beings.

Often those folks who believe they are truly the elite, or extremely righteous, or have some special gift are those who are more likely to "experience" these sorts of magical beings.

These sorts of mystical/psychic/magical experiences seem to be part of the human experience, for one reason or another.

:-)

~dancer~
"The search for reality is the most dangerous of all undertakings for it destroys the world in which you live." Nisargadatta Maharaj
_harmony
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Post by _harmony »

truth dancer wrote: I know one guy who is actually a Shaman who believes there is a large loving dragon type thing in the center of the Earth...
Maybe that's Joseph's lost curelom.
_Jason Bourne
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Post by _Jason Bourne »

It reminds me of an article written about Romney. The author said religion shouldn't normally matter in ones choice for president, but sometimes (like the case of Mormonism) the beliefs are so far out there that they do become a factor.
Are Mormonisms beliefs any more strange the any other religion? How about a baptist minister who believes a man rose from the dead and that God had to kill his Son to forgive the creation God made in the fist place. How about the idea of the Rapture and the tribulation period, the anti Christ, Armageddon and all the plagues that are outlined in Revelation. Would you take Huckabee over Romney? Huckabee certainly believes all this. Do you want another evangelical president?

As for Hammer, I think he is not telling the truth at all.
_BishopRic
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Post by _BishopRic »

This reminds me of a "very special" mission conference we had in Kobe, Japan in 1978. Our special guest was none other than Bruce R. McConkie. About half way through his talk, he asked the doors to be closed, asked the mission Pres if it was safe to discuss a sacred topic, then proceeded to tell us in no uncertain terms how he had met the Savior. He described his appearance, his words, and even the time and location. Of course we were all in tears, and didn't think to doubt the event at all. He told us all to only discuss this with other faithful, prepared saints.

Now looking back on the situation from a different perspective, I have to wonder...why would "the Savior," who met with Bruce R (and I'm sure many other GAs claim the same sort of visitation), and who apparently has led church leaders to say things such as "the Lord will not allow the prophet to lead the members astray...," who has said that the 12 are also "special witnesses, prophets, seers and revelators" (and Bruce was one of these), allow such incorrect doctrines to be taught through the ages? The necessity for plural marriage here on earth, the blacks and the priesthood, and now the clearly incorrect teaching of who the Lamanites are...in one of these special meetings, don't you think he would say something like "oh, and that thing all y'all are saying about the Indians...well, it's not true, and I don't want my 'saints' to be misinformed or confused. There's enough challenge for them to learn truth, let's not make it any harder than it already is!"
_The Nehor
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Post by _The Nehor »

Where does it say spiritual experiences inevitably make one a perfectly nice pleasant person?

By the way, lump me in with Hammer. I have had similar experiences though not with Joseph. I assure you I'm sincere. I'm not lying. That leaves it's the truth or I'm insane.

I report, you decide :)
"Surely he knows that DCP, The Nehor, Lamanite, and other key apologists..." -Scratch clarifying my status in apologetics
"I admit it; I'm a petty, petty man." -Some Schmo
_BishopRic
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Post by _BishopRic »

The Nehor wrote:Where does it say spiritual experiences inevitably make one a perfectly nice pleasant person?

By the way, lump me in with Hammer. I have had similar experiences though not with Joseph. I assure you I'm sincere. I'm not lying. That leaves it's the truth or I'm insane.

I report, you decide :)
Do we have to? Lol!

Actually, I have heard many of these experiences through my 50 years...in and out of the church. I don't doubt that you, or they, have had some sort of intense experience with "the other side." I don't claim to know what they are, but I am quite certain they are not at all unique to Mormons, nor any more accurate.
_LifeOnaPlate
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Post by _LifeOnaPlate »

Runtu wrote:You've got it all wrong, Shades. When you've had spiritual experiences, it gives you the authority to be even more judgmental than before.
This is my general rule in the interpretation of events shared by other people.

Personally, it's not my business to say whether Hammer really did have this experience or not; my gut leans towards no, but that is mostly because of general experience with Hammer as well as his method of revealing his experience.
One moment in annihilation's waste,
one moment, of the well of life to taste-
The stars are setting and the caravan
starts for the dawn of nothing; Oh, make haste!

-Omar Khayaam

*Be on the lookout for the forthcoming album from Jiminy Finn and the Moneydiggers.*
_barrelomonkeys
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Post by _barrelomonkeys »

LifeOnaPlate wrote:This is my general rule in the interpretation of events shared by other people.

Personally, it's not my business to say whether Hammer really did have this experience or not; my gut leans towards no, but that is mostly because of general experience with Hammer as well as his method of revealing his experience.
Okay, maybe I'm confusing spirtual experiences of those had by Hammer and the such with mine. I just get "happy feelings" :) when I get all spiritual. I don't see things that aren't there and then beat my superiority of being uber special enough to have been visited by some old dead dude over the head of unsuspecting internet posters.

Nehor, I like you. I think you're sincere. Or if you're not I just don't care.

Hammer on the other hand is most definitely a bit *off*. Sometimes it's a bit humorous. Other times it is cringe worthy. Hammer uses the spiritual card as a "naa naa naa naa naa I'm better than you" sort of move. That reeks of insincerity and just plain ole wackiness!
_barrelomonkeys
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Post by _barrelomonkeys »

Oh! Wait! Is that what the Church does? We're special cause we have these experiences and others need to join to have them too? Eep!

Is he just the norm? Oh, someone tell me Hammer is not the norm for LDS!!
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