Joseph Smith's possible mental disorders
Re: Joseph Smith's possible mental disorders
I'd say that telling people you've just had a chat with "John the Beloved", and a 1,800 year old Nephite, is enough evidence of a mental disorder.
Re: Joseph Smith's possible mental disorders
Ray A wrote:I'd say that telling people you've just had a chat with "John the Beloved", and a 1,800 year old Nephite, is enough evidence of a mental disorder.
Who did that?
Re: Joseph Smith's possible mental disorders
Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:Hello,
Perhaps he was just an asshole?
V/R
Dr. Cam
You see, it is posts like these that cause my reign of fire to fall upon you.
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Re: Joseph Smith's possible mental disorders
Interesting, beastie. I wasn't aware of the bipolar descendants.
Re: Joseph Smith's possible mental disorders
Oh yes, let us now speculate yet another theory for Joseph Smith.
How could Joseph Smith have produced the Book of Mormon, become a philosopher, a military leader, a social reformer, an economist, a city planner, an architect, a newspaper editor, a health advisor, an educator, an athlete, a theologian, begin what would become a world religion, and above all be a family man and a man of God.
I pester other posters about not citing their claims, so here is my citation.
So what theories can we all come up with so that we do not have to believe in this great man, and therefore can toil in our anger against a church that we feel "duped" us, but in fact did nothing but good.
"Well" says one "he was just highly intelligent, which allowed him to be a manipulative conman."
"Or" says another "he simply knew some people who were far more educated than he, and was in cahoots with then the whole time."
"Maybe" says a third "he was dabbling in magic and occult practices, and the devil helped him do all of these things to bring his church to the world."
"He could have been bi-polar" says another.
"Or a savant" proclaims yet another.
A thousand theories, yet only one fits this man, and that is Joseph Smith was who he claimed to be.
How could Joseph Smith have produced the Book of Mormon, become a philosopher, a military leader, a social reformer, an economist, a city planner, an architect, a newspaper editor, a health advisor, an educator, an athlete, a theologian, begin what would become a world religion, and above all be a family man and a man of God.
I pester other posters about not citing their claims, so here is my citation.
So what theories can we all come up with so that we do not have to believe in this great man, and therefore can toil in our anger against a church that we feel "duped" us, but in fact did nothing but good.
"Well" says one "he was just highly intelligent, which allowed him to be a manipulative conman."
"Or" says another "he simply knew some people who were far more educated than he, and was in cahoots with then the whole time."
"Maybe" says a third "he was dabbling in magic and occult practices, and the devil helped him do all of these things to bring his church to the world."
"He could have been bi-polar" says another.
"Or a savant" proclaims yet another.
A thousand theories, yet only one fits this man, and that is Joseph Smith was who he claimed to be.
Re: Joseph Smith's possible mental disorders
Simon Belmont wrote:Who did that?
I thought you were an expert on Joseph Smith?
Orson Pratt recalled in later years that these angels were Book of Mormon personalities to whom Joseph spoke face to face. (See Journal of Discourses, 13:66.)
Elder John Taylor also identified “Mormon, Moroni, Nephi, and others of the ancient Prophets who formerly lived on this Continent” as visitors. (Journal of Discourses, 17:374.)
Elder Orson Pratt, in a personal letter to John Christensen of Brigham City, testified:
“The prophet often received visits from Nephi, Moroni, Peter, James, John (the beloved), John (the Baptist), Elijah, Moses, the three Nephites, etc. etc.
Book of Mormon Personalities Known by Joseph Smith
Re: Joseph Smith's possible mental disorders
Ray A wrote:Simon Belmont wrote:Who did that?
I thought you were an expert on Joseph Smith?Orson Pratt recalled in later years that these angels were Book of Mormon personalities to whom Joseph spoke face to face. (See Journal of Discourses, 13:66.)
Elder John Taylor also identified “Mormon, Moroni, Nephi, and others of the ancient Prophets who formerly lived on this Continent” as visitors. (Journal of Discourses, 17:374.)
Elder Orson Pratt, in a personal letter to John Christensen of Brigham City, testified:
“The prophet often received visits from Nephi, Moroni, Peter, James, John (the beloved), John (the Baptist), Elijah, Moses, the three Nephites, etc. etc.
Book of Mormon Personalities Known by Joseph Smith
Surely you must be joking.
If you make a claim that someone was mentally ill because of 3rd of 4th-hand accounts, you are really stretching there, Ray.
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Re: Joseph Smith's possible mental disorders
Simon Belmont wrote:Oh yes, let us now speculate yet another theory for Joseph Smith.
How could Joseph Smith have produced the Book of Mormon, become a philosopher, a military leader, a social reformer, an economist, a city planner, an architect, a newspaper editor, a health advisor, an educator, an athlete, a theologian, begin what would become a world religion, and above all be a family man and a man of God.
I pester other posters about not citing their claims, so here is my citation.
Oh, wow. Citing John "The Hatchet" Tvedtnes, of all people? And an opinion piece no less! What an embarrassment for you, Simon/oxygenadam/Skywalker (who, by the way, has been totally in absentia on the aptly named MADboard ever since you began your obsessive run of posting here).
"[I]f, while hoping that everybody else will be honest and so forth, I can personally prosper through unethical and immoral acts without being detected and without risk, why should I not?." --Daniel Peterson, 6/4/14
Re: Joseph Smith's possible mental disorders
Simon Belmont wrote:
Surely you must be joking.
If you make a claim that someone was mentally ill because of 3rd of 4th-hand accounts, you are really stretching there, Ray.
That's the usual, typical apologist response (old stuff, Simon).
So Joseph sees God and Jesus, eventually tells his family and others, and if they relate what Joseph told them, we cannot trust their accounts? You don't trust the words and accounts of those General Authorities and others close to Joseph Smith? Interesting. Bear in mind I'm looking at this from your perspective as a believing apologist and how far you're willing to go to dismiss 2nd, 3rd or 4th hand accounts. Were they just gullible to believe him, then? They gave false reports? Didn't check them properly? Can they be trusted? Can The Ensign be trusted?
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Re: Joseph Smith's possible mental disorders
Ray A wrote:Simon Belmont wrote:
Surely you must be joking.
If you make a claim that someone was mentally ill because of 3rd of 4th-hand accounts, you are really stretching there, Ray.
That's the usual, typical apologist response (old stuff, Simon).
So Joseph sees God and Jesus, eventually tells his family and others, and if they relate what Joseph told them, we cannot trust their accounts? You don't trust the words and accounts of those General Authorities and others close to Joseph Smith? Interesting. Bear in mind I'm looking at this from your perspective as a believing apologist and how far you're willing to go to dismiss 2nd, 3rd or 4th hand accounts. Were they just gullible to believe him, then? They gave false reports? Didn't check them properly? Can they be trusted? Can The Ensign be trusted?
Plus, it's worth pointing out that whatever corroborating evidence exists for the veracity of the Witnesses is all "2nd-, 3rd-, or 4th-" hand.
"[I]f, while hoping that everybody else will be honest and so forth, I can personally prosper through unethical and immoral acts without being detected and without risk, why should I not?." --Daniel Peterson, 6/4/14