Great question - "Why are facts Anti-Mormon?"

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_Drifting
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Re: Great question - "Why are facts Anti-Mormon?"

Post by _Drifting »

why me wrote:In Mormonism the facts are not the problem. But how one interprets the facts is the problem. Bushman's book created no problem because it was written in a faith promoting way. And it was sold in church bookstores. The same with the new Brigham biography. It is being sold in church bookstores.

It is not the facts but the interpretation of intent.


The Church makes no mention in its official materials of Joseph's polygamy and polyandry even though it is fact that he did participate in both those practices.

If the members aren't given the facts in the first place how can they be expected to interpret intent, other than interpreting the Church's intent behind the hiding of this type of information?
“We look to not only the spiritual but also the temporal, and we believe that a person who is impoverished temporally cannot blossom spiritually.”
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"One, two, three...let's go shopping!"
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_why me
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Re: Great question - "Why are facts Anti-Mormon?"

Post by _why me »

PrickKicker wrote:
OBLIVIOUS!? or MORON!?
Image


Is this now permitted in the celestial forum? :rolleyes:
I intend to lay a foundation that will revolutionize the whole world.
Joseph Smith


We are “to feed the hungry, to clothe the naked, to provide for the widow, to dry up the tear of the orphan, to comfort the afflicted, whether in this church, or in any other, or in no church at all…”
Joseph Smith
_PrickKicker
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Re: Great question - "Why are facts Anti-Mormon?"

Post by _PrickKicker »

Retracted Comment, God bless the Mormons and the other Christians here that dislike Atheists!
Last edited by Guest on Fri Nov 02, 2012 4:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
PrickKicker: I used to be a Narrow minded, short sighted, Lying, Racist, Homophobic, Pious, Moron. But they were all behavioral traits that I had learnt through Mormonism.
_ldsfaqs
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Re: Great question - "Why are facts Anti-Mormon?"

Post by _ldsfaqs »

Drifting wrote:
why me wrote:In Mormonism the facts are not the problem. But how one interprets the facts is the problem. Bushman's book created no problem because it was written in a faith promoting way. And it was sold in church bookstores. The same with the new Brigham biography. It is being sold in church bookstores.

It is not the facts but the interpretation of intent.


The Church makes no mention in its official materials of Joseph's polygamy and polyandry even though it is fact that he did participate in both those practices.

If the members aren't given the facts in the first place how can they be expected to interpret intent, other than interpreting the Church's intent behind the hiding of this type of information?


And an excellent example of anti-mormon "facts" not being facts at all.

And it's because this statement is absolutely and utterly FALSE....
Official materials most certainly DO mention Joseph's Polygamy and even Polyandry though yes not as much.

Further, not being "emphasized" is a different story, and for an obvious reason. Not because the Church is "afraid" of the facts, it's because Polygamy and the Sealing Ordinance in a "Polyandrus" way is simply not current Church doctrine or practice anymore.

Do you still do the same things and take the same classes you did as a child? Nope, so why do you think a group would talk about stuff that hasn't been in it's practices and doctrines for over a 100 years???

You do know we don't teach "History classes" right at Church? Although we do have them in our colleges and institutes, and even Seminary. Guess what, at some point WE LEARN IT ALL!!!!
"Socialism is Rape and Capitalism is consensual sex" - Ben Shapiro
_ldsfaqs
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Re: Great question - "Why are facts Anti-Mormon?"

Post by _ldsfaqs »

GoForBroke wrote:Ldsfaqs is right. If you continue to use logical conclusions based on facts, and those logical conclusions make the church look bad due to current social values, then yes - it is anti Mormon. A Mormon friendly conclusion should ignore logic and "reasonable person tests" and instead use weasel phrases like "prophet's opinion", "normal for his time" and "the motives for your question are disingenuous".


And another perfect example of how anti-mormons use a little truth to tell great lies.

1. I never at all said what he claims I said.
2. The logical conclusions "based on facts" is not where the problem resides, it's the omission of important facts and the addition of false facts, and the omission of important logic and reason which makes false conclusions that are only "logical" when all the above is done. If facts stood on their own then logical conclusions based on them would always be true. Problem is, most facts don't stand on their own, they require the knowledge of other facts, other logic, etc. for the actual truth to be known.

99% of every anti-mormon claim is false and a lie because it omits important facts and logic, as well as adds false facts and logic, all of which a conclusion is then made from.

I'm a Mormon again for many years now and forever because I studied more on all the issues and claims to know what actually was true. That's when I saw what anti-mormonism does in every single case, which is exactly as I've said.
"Socialism is Rape and Capitalism is consensual sex" - Ben Shapiro
_Albion
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Re: Great question - "Why are facts Anti-Mormon?"

Post by _Albion »

ldsfaqs, I know you don't like answering challenges but could you provide some references from "official" sources that emphatically state that people such as Joseph Smith practiced polyandry or that he even had more than 30 wives. Remember, "official" publications of the Mormon Church are relatively few...you can include teaching manuals, the monthly church magazine, and the Church News as "official" publications.
_Drifting
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Re: Great question - "Why are facts Anti-Mormon?"

Post by _Drifting »

ldsfaqs wrote:And an excellent example of anti-mormon "facts" not being facts at all.

And it's because this statement is absolutely and utterly FALSE....
Official materials most certainly DO mention Joseph's Polygamy and even Polyandry though yes not as much.

Further, not being "emphasized" is a different story, and for an obvious reason. Not because the Church is "afraid" of the facts, it's because Polygamy and the Sealing Ordinance in a "Polyandrus" way is simply not current Church doctrine or practice anymore.


CFR that Joseph's polygamy and polyandry is talked about in official materials.
“We look to not only the spiritual but also the temporal, and we believe that a person who is impoverished temporally cannot blossom spiritually.”
Keith McMullin - Counsellor in Presiding Bishopric

"One, two, three...let's go shopping!"
Thomas S Monson - Prophet, Seer, Revelator
_sleepyhead
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Re: Great question - "Why are facts Anti-Mormon?"

Post by _sleepyhead »

why me wrote:In Mormonism the facts are not the problem. But how one interprets the facts is the problem. Bushman's book created no problem because it was written in a faith promoting way. And it was sold in church bookstores. The same with the new Brigham biography. It is being sold in church bookstores.

It is not the facts but the interpretation of intent.


Hello why me,

Do you feel that all facts with regards to faith systems should be written in a faith promoting way? The reason I ask is that I looked up some of the church material with regards to reincarnation.

http://www.LDS.org/ensign/1989/08/i-have-a-question

5. Reincarnation denies the entire purpose of the atonement of Jesus Christ. Those who believe that spirits and gods can repeatedly inhabit a variety of physical forms do not take into account Christ’s mission and the purpose of the Atonement. For a person who believes in reincarnation, Christ would be but one manifestation of a temporarily embodied savior—one of many possible incarnations.
May all your naps be joyous occasions.
_ldsfaqs
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Re: Great question - "Why are facts Anti-Mormon?"

Post by _ldsfaqs »

Alfredo wrote:Mormon teachings indoctrinate children. A true conclusion derived from facts.


Every Human Being, every Parent, every Ideology, every System, every Program, etc. "Indoctrinates" children.

That is the ACTUAL true conclusion derived from the FULL facts. The actual question needs to be "what" indoctrination is good and useful, and what is evil and worthless.

You need to learn to think deeper.....
"Socialism is Rape and Capitalism is consensual sex" - Ben Shapiro
_ldsfaqs
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Re: Great question - "Why are facts Anti-Mormon?"

Post by _ldsfaqs »

Drifting wrote:
ldsfaqs wrote:
1. Because facts are not the same thing as truth.




fact/fakt/
Noun:
A thing that is indisputably the case.


Yes, facts are "indisputable", but a fact is not the same thing as a truth, because multiple facts can make up a truth as well as multiple falsehoods can make a falsehood, and also facts and falsehoods mixed together can make truth or falsehood.

In actual real life "facts" don't stand alone by themselves, because more than one fact is required to indicate what the actual truth is.

Further, not all facts are even facts, they are lies and misrepresentations thus not facts at all.
"Socialism is Rape and Capitalism is consensual sex" - Ben Shapiro
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