5 reasons to suspect Jesus never existed...
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Re: 5 reasons to suspect Jesus never existed...
Here, let me make this simple.
Unless you can get Aristotle Smith and/or Kishkumen on this thread to respond, the rest of what you guys are going to lay on the table is going to be links to material and evidence that you're not qualified to discuss intelligently.
And that's pretty much the way it rolls, folks.
Unless you can get Aristotle Smith and/or Kishkumen on this thread to respond, the rest of what you guys are going to lay on the table is going to be links to material and evidence that you're not qualified to discuss intelligently.
And that's pretty much the way it rolls, folks.
Failure is not falling down but refusing to get up.
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Re: 5 reasons to suspect Jesus never existed...
Jersey Girl wrote:
Unless you can get Aristotle Smith and/or Kishkumen on this thread to respond, the rest of what you guys are going to lay on the table is going to be links to material and evidence that you're not qualified to discuss intelligently.
And, um ... you are so qualified?
If you are not so qualified, would that not diminish the reliance we can place on your judgement of who is qualified to discuss such matters?
Zadok:
I did not have a faith crisis. I discovered that the Church was having a truth crisis.
Maksutov:
That's the problem with this supernatural stuff, it doesn't really solve anything. It's a placeholder for ignorance.
I did not have a faith crisis. I discovered that the Church was having a truth crisis.
Maksutov:
That's the problem with this supernatural stuff, it doesn't really solve anything. It's a placeholder for ignorance.
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Re: 5 reasons to suspect Jesus never existed...
Chap wrote:Jersey Girl wrote:
Unless you can get Aristotle Smith and/or Kishkumen on this thread to respond, the rest of what you guys are going to lay on the table is going to be links to material and evidence that you're not qualified to discuss intelligently.
And, um ... you are so qualified?
If you are not so qualified, would that not diminish the reliance we can place on your judgement of who is qualified to discuss such matters?
If they choose to engage this topic, it won't matter if you think that I'm qualified to identify who is qualified.
By their fruits ye shall know them.
Failure is not falling down but refusing to get up.
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Re: 5 reasons to suspect Jesus never existed...
Here, I'll make a few more assertions for the teeming masses here.
When I see this topic go up, as I have numerous times, what I tend to see in the responses is a lot of opportunity taking to mock believers and regurgitate things people have read on various websites. They'll trot out Alexander the Great, Homer or whomever, take a little trip down the road to paganism, camp out on Mithraism, and repeatedly refer to the work of Ehrman.
That's cool with me.
What I find ironic, is that this board is heavily populated by former LDS who have taken great pride in the fact that they've investigated the truth claims of the LDS church, and who will make almost no effort at all to investigate the truth claims of the non-Historical Jesus folks.
The thinking has been done, they might as well raise up an "Amen!" and admit that they're intellectually right back where they started.
And that's cool with me, too. Whatever it takes, people.
When I see this topic go up, as I have numerous times, what I tend to see in the responses is a lot of opportunity taking to mock believers and regurgitate things people have read on various websites. They'll trot out Alexander the Great, Homer or whomever, take a little trip down the road to paganism, camp out on Mithraism, and repeatedly refer to the work of Ehrman.
That's cool with me.
What I find ironic, is that this board is heavily populated by former LDS who have taken great pride in the fact that they've investigated the truth claims of the LDS church, and who will make almost no effort at all to investigate the truth claims of the non-Historical Jesus folks.
The thinking has been done, they might as well raise up an "Amen!" and admit that they're intellectually right back where they started.
And that's cool with me, too. Whatever it takes, people.
Failure is not falling down but refusing to get up.
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Re: 5 reasons to suspect Jesus never existed...
Chap wrote:Jersey Girl wrote:
Unless you can get Aristotle Smith and/or Kishkumen on this thread to respond, the rest of what you guys are going to lay on the table is going to be links to material and evidence that you're not qualified to discuss intelligently.
And, um ... you are so qualified?
If you are not so qualified, would that not diminish the reliance we can place on your judgement of who is qualified to discuss such matters?
Exactly. +1
"I'm on paid sabbatical from BYU in exchange for my promise to use this time to finish two books."
Daniel C. Peterson, 2014
Daniel C. Peterson, 2014
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Re: 5 reasons to suspect Jesus never existed...
Everybody Wang Chung wrote:
Exactly. +1
Here you go, sweetie. I'll make your contribution for you. See how nice I am?

Failure is not falling down but refusing to get up.
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Re: 5 reasons to suspect Jesus never existed...
Jersey Girl wrote:Here, let me make this simple.
Unless you can get Aristotle Smith and/or Kishkumen on this thread to respond, the rest of what you guys are going to lay on the table is going to be links to material and evidence that you're not qualified to discuss intelligently.
And that's pretty much the way it rolls, folks.
What in the world can you contribute toward substantive conversation? Also, as stated above, the issue has been discussed and researched to such a high degree what's left to say?
Here are your options at this point, since the discussion of a historical Jesus are so thoroughly fleshed out:
1) You pull a Gorman/Mental G and just choose to believe. Remember: Be the pudding, not the nail and hammer.
2) You pull a Nightlion and you start see Jesus in your toast.
3) You pull a Tobin and create a whole new whatifism religion.
4) You pull a DCP and knowingly defend a fraud because you're invested.
5) You become agnostic because you realize myths are just that, but the Universe is really large, so, like, whatever man.
6) You become an atheist because it's patently obvious all religion is just ripping each other off to lessen the pain of the obvious, sad truths of existence.
7) You pull a Calculus Crusader and become ISIS in whatever form because you lost your goddamn mind.
Or we can go around and around for another 16 pages with believers whipping retarded whatifisms out their butts, and critics showing either historical or philosophical reasons why the whatifism of the moment is nonsense.
edit: words
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Last edited by Guest on Tue Mar 17, 2015 9:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
In the face of madness, rationality has no power - Xiao Wang, US historiographer, 2287 AD.
Every record...falsified, every book rewritten...every statue...has been renamed or torn down, every date...altered...the process is continuing...minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Ideology is always right.
Every record...falsified, every book rewritten...every statue...has been renamed or torn down, every date...altered...the process is continuing...minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Ideology is always right.
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Re: 5 reasons to suspect Jesus never existed...
Jersey Girl wrote:Everybody Wang Chung wrote:
Exactly. +1
Here you go, sweetie. I'll make your contribution for you. See how nice I am?
Jersey,
It matters nothing to me about how nice you think you are. What matters, as Chap so aptly articulated, is what are your qualifications.
So far, I'm not seeing much...............
"I'm on paid sabbatical from BYU in exchange for my promise to use this time to finish two books."
Daniel C. Peterson, 2014
Daniel C. Peterson, 2014
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Re: 5 reasons to suspect Jesus never existed...
Aristotle is overstating his case in that quote. Julius Caesar's physical existence, for example, is much better attested by the network of evidence than Jesus. It's Ok to argue that based on available evidence and how the existence of historical figures is inferred, it is likely that Jesus existed without having to assert extreme confidence. Jesus's existence is about as well attested as Socrates - maybe a little worse - to put it in perspective. Socrates acts as a good analogy because he also has mythic qualities wrapped up in commentary and questions about when his voice ends and where the authors writing about him begins.
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Re: 5 reasons to suspect Jesus never existed...
Everybody Wang Chung wrote:
Jersey,
It matters nothing to me about how nice you think you are. What matters, as Chap so aptly articulated, is what are your qualifications.
So far, I'm not seeing much...............
My qualifications concerning what?
Failure is not falling down but refusing to get up.
Chinese Proverb
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