Independent LDS researcher puts active membership at 6 million

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Alphus and Omegus
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Re: Independent LDS researcher puts active membership at 6 million

Post by Alphus and Omegus »

malkie wrote:
Mon Jan 02, 2023 11:45 pm
Whereas "every member a missionary" was seen as ... what?
I think it was seen as a slogan.

But one other issue that is difficult for Mormons compared to JWs is that because Mormonism has Utah and parts of Idaho that are predominantly Mormon, member missionary programs are probably a lot harder in such areas.

It's such a heavy burden to lay upon the members of doing real and regular missionizing that it would drastically change who wants to be a Mormon, I would think.
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malkie
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Re: Independent LDS researcher puts active membership at 6 million

Post by malkie »

Alphus and Omegus wrote:
Mon Jan 02, 2023 11:54 pm
malkie wrote:
Mon Jan 02, 2023 11:45 pm
Whereas "every member a missionary" was seen as ... what?
I think it was seen as a slogan.

But one other issue that is difficult for Mormons compared to JWs is that because Mormonism has Utah and parts of Idaho that are predominantly Mormon, member missionary programs are probably a lot harder in such areas.

It's such a heavy burden to lay upon the members of doing real and regular missionizing that it would drastically change who wants to be a Mormon, I would think.
Leaders could put some teeth in the "request" for missionary work, by making it a requirement for a Temple Recommend, just like tithing.

However, I suspect that if they ever considered that they would realize that it would cause a serious downturn in the number of temple-worthy members, in addition to a sharp increase in the numbers of members willing to tell a lie to get their TR.
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simon southerton
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Re: Independent LDS researcher puts active membership at 6 million

Post by simon southerton »

Church critics, Stewart acknowledged, would no doubt chalk up his pessimistic projections to the idea that the faith’s beliefs and practices no longer resonate with many in today’s world.

“I disagree with that,” he said. “The shortfall in the growth of the LDS Church is not ultimately about the message. It’s been, in my view, about the way that the message has been spread.”
Stewart has a huge blind spot. The message IS the problem. He makes no mention of the impact of the Internet and social media, which took off at the same time growth stalled. He makes no mention of the CES letter and the vast array of factually correct critical information that totally undermines the founding narrative taught by the church. No mention of the essays, Mormon Stories,exmormon reddit etc etc. This is what you get from a TBM scholar.

Taking more time to convert people just gives them more time to find critical information and to ditch the missionaries.
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Rivendale
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Re: Independent LDS researcher puts active membership at 6 million

Post by Rivendale »

simon southerton wrote:
Tue Jan 03, 2023 10:55 am
Church critics, Stewart acknowledged, would no doubt chalk up his pessimistic projections to the idea that the faith’s beliefs and practices no longer resonate with many in today’s world.

“I disagree with that,” he said. “The shortfall in the growth of the LDS Church is not ultimately about the message. It’s been, in my view, about the way that the message has been spread.”
Stewart has a huge blind spot. The message IS the problem. He makes no mention of the impact of the Internet and social media, which took off at the same time growth stalled. He makes no mention of the CES letter and the vast array of factually correct critical information that totally undermines the founding narrative taught by the church. No mention of the essays, Mormon Stories,exmormon reddit etc etc. This is what you get from a TBM scholar.

Taking more time to convert people just gives them more time to find critical information and to ditch the missionaries.
Agree. As an example this https://youtu.be/4PlnA1hkdzI which is titled "you are responsible for your own learning". Steven Harper, Hank Smith, and John Bytheway use excerpts like this

39 Now, this is not because the seed was not good, neither is it because the fruit thereof would not be desirable; but it is because your ground is barren, and ye will not nourish the tree, therefore ye cannot have the fruit thereof.
to blame the learner for not being receptive. And then using the tired old logic of "how do you describe what salt tastes like" to mock the learner. Indeed it never crosses their mind that the seed is bad
dastardly stem
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Re: Independent LDS researcher puts active membership at 6 million

Post by dastardly stem »

Yes, the message is a big part of the problem. Its not if JWs and 7th Day Adventists don't have message problems too. So it seems method is another part of the problem. The Church simply, as we'd expect from some non-God inspired organization, hasn't been able to adapt to our changing world.
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BeNotDeceived
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Re: Independent LDS researcher puts active membership at 6 million

Post by BeNotDeceived »

drumdude wrote:
Mon Jan 02, 2023 8:29 pm
Once they acknowledge the declining membership it will be framed as a sure sign of the end times. Only the truly valiant in the pre-existence signed up to be present in this final climactic orgasm of religious persecution and godlessness.
This.
Alphus and Omegus
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Re: Independent LDS researcher puts active membership at 6 million

Post by Alphus and Omegus »

dastardly stem wrote:
Tue Jan 03, 2023 3:15 pm
Yes, the message is a big part of the problem. Its not if JWs and 7th Day Adventists don't have message problems too. So it seems method is another part of the problem. The Church simply, as we'd expect from some non-God inspired organization, hasn't been able to adapt to our changing world.
Exactly. JWs have just as absurd, if not more absurd beliefs than Mormons, but that has not stopped their growth. I'm not as familiar with SDA's beliefs, but they can't be that much more rational than Mormonism.

Irrational beliefs are not a barrier to getting converts among the uneducated or cognitively lacking.
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