Page 2 of 22
Re: Question for Mo Experts
Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2023 11:30 pm
by dastardly stem
MG 2.0 wrote: ↑Fri Feb 03, 2023 11:20 pm
Morley wrote: ↑Fri Feb 03, 2023 9:37 pm
Yeah, I'm under the impression that God has an obligation to not let his prophets lead the Church into dark places. Imputing that Blacks are under a curse because of their actions in the pre-existence, or that they are descended from Cain, are both pretty dark. Denying a people blessings because of their race is a pretty dark place to go.
You know the history behind the priesthood ban on those of African decent. It’s not as simple as you portray it. Or DO you know the history? And the people/culture that influenced the views of those that said what they said.
What do the current views that are held…including the “we don’t know” comments…tell you? They may tell you something different than what others hear/interpret. This would be due to competing influences, knowledge, and experiences that you have had vs. what others have had.
That’s the rub. And that’s where disagreements lie.
Regards,
MG
MG,
Does the church not support the James passage wherein it says “if any of you lack wisdom let him ask of God…and it shall be given him”.
Ya have to wonder what happens when God endorses the notion he’ll answer questions freely but then it is excused by believers afterward saying he hasn’t answered questions asked of him and allowed his church to teach ugly things like “less valiant” and “cursed” based on race.
Re: Question for Mo Experts
Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2023 11:33 pm
by malkie
Stem - perhaps it's one of the parts that was not translated properly.
If so, that could explain a lot ...
Re: Question for Mo Experts
Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2023 11:35 pm
by dastardly stem
malkie wrote: ↑Fri Feb 03, 2023 11:33 pm
Stem - perhaps it's one of the parts that was not translated properly.
If so, that could explain a lot ...
Yeah maybe Joseph was sent one of those strong delusions as evidenced by that passage of scripture entering Joseph’s soul and having such a big impact on him. I’m sure MG is right and Joseph was simply deceived.
Re: Question for Mo Experts
Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2023 11:49 pm
by MG 2.0
dastardly stem wrote: ↑Fri Feb 03, 2023 11:35 pm
malkie wrote: ↑Fri Feb 03, 2023 11:33 pm
Stem - perhaps it's one of the parts that was not translated properly.
If so, that could explain a lot ...
Yeah maybe Joseph was sent one of those strong delusions as evidenced by that passage of scripture entering Joseph’s soul and having such a big impact on him. I’m sure MG is right and Joseph was simply deceived.
This scripture made an impression on him as he heard preachers give sermons. He was convicted in his heart. He felt that his eternal soul and those of his family were at risk unless he followed the injunction/scripture quoted and then reinforced by those ‘in the know’.
James 1:5 was the trigger that led him to ask for forgiveness from his sins in order to ‘get right’ with his maker.
If Joseph had asked God something that God was not willing to divulge or let him have knowledge of at that time I doubt that he would have received it.
Think about it. Joseph’s main purpose in going to the Lord was of a VERY personal nature. It makes SENSE that God would respond.
But that doesn’t in turn mean that it is a logical step forward to then say God is forced/obligated to ask any and all questions that are placed before him as per the two quick examples I placed before malkie.
Regards,
MG
Re: Question for Mo Experts
Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2023 11:50 pm
by Morley
MG 2.0 wrote: ↑Fri Feb 03, 2023 8:35 pm
Are you under the impression that God is somehow under obligation to answer every and all questions posed to Him?
Morley wrote: ↑Fri Feb 03, 2023 9:37 pm
Yeah, I'm under the impression that God has an obligation to not let his prophets lead the Church into dark places. Imputing that Blacks are under a curse because of their actions in the pre-existence, or that they are descended from Cain, are both pretty dark. Denying a people blessings because of their race is a pretty dark place to go.
MG 2.0 wrote: ↑Fri Feb 03, 2023 11:20 pm
You know the history behind the priesthood ban on those of African decent. It’s not as simple as you portray it. Or DO you know the history? And the people/culture that influenced the views of those that said what they said.
What do the current views that are held…including the “we don’t know” comments…tell you? They may tell you something different than what others hear/interpret. This would be due to competing influences, knowledge, and experiences that you have had vs. what others have had.
That’s the rub. And that’s where disagreements lie.
What does any of this have to do with whether or not God had an obligation to respond to prophetic questions about the priesthood ban?
Re: Question for Mo Experts
Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2023 11:53 pm
by MG 2.0
dastardly stem wrote: ↑Fri Feb 03, 2023 11:30 pm
Does the church not support the James passage wherein it says “if any of you lack wisdom let him ask of God…and it shall be given him”.
Knowing that you are an unbeliever in any literal interpretation of scripture it is interesting that you are taking a hard fundamentalist/literal viewpoint of James 1:5.
Regards,
MG
Re: Question for Mo Experts
Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2023 11:56 pm
by Morley
I'll say this again: Yeah, I'm under the impression that God has an obligation to not let his prophets lead the Church into dark places. Imputing that Blacks are under a curse because of their actions in the pre-existence, or that they are descended from Cain, are both pretty dark. Denying a people blessings because of their race is a pretty dark place to go.
Re: Question for Mo Experts
Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2023 11:57 pm
by MG 2.0
Morley wrote: ↑Fri Feb 03, 2023 11:50 pm
MG 2.0 wrote: ↑Fri Feb 03, 2023 8:35 pm
Are you under the impression that God is somehow under obligation to answer every and all questions posed to Him?
Morley wrote: ↑Fri Feb 03, 2023 9:37 pm
Yeah, I'm under the impression that God has an obligation to not let his prophets lead the Church into dark places. Imputing that Blacks are under a curse because of their actions in the pre-existence, or that they are descended from Cain, are both pretty dark. Denying a people blessings because of their race is a pretty dark place to go.
MG 2.0 wrote: ↑Fri Feb 03, 2023 11:20 pm
You know the history behind the priesthood ban on those of African decent. It’s not as simple as you portray it. Or DO you know the history? And the people/culture that influenced the views of those that said what they said.
What do the current views that are held…including the “we don’t know” comments…tell you? They may tell you something different than what others hear/interpret. This would be due to competing influences, knowledge, and experiences that you have had vs. what others have had.
That’s the rub. And that’s where disagreements lie.
What does any of this have to do with whether or not God had an obligation to respond to prophetic questions about the priesthood ban?
That He is under no obligation to do so. Read between the lines of the other comments I’ve made on this thread.
We cannot force God to reveal anything. But if He DOES, the scriptures are clear that He will do so through His prophets. If it’s something that has application to His church/kingdom.
Regards,
MG
Re: Question for Mo Experts
Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2023 12:06 am
by Morley
Morley wrote: ↑Fri Feb 03, 2023 11:50 pm
What does any of this have to do with whether or not God had an obligation to respond to prophetic questions about the priesthood ban?
MG 2.0 wrote: ↑Fri Feb 03, 2023 11:57 pm
That He is under no obligation to do so. Read between the lines of the other comments I’ve made on this thread.
We cannot force God to reveal anything. But if He DOES, the scriptures are clear that He will do so through His prophets. If it’s something that has application to His church/kingdom.
Please point out where what you said below refers to either God's obligation or his lack there of.
MG 2.0 wrote: ↑Fri Feb 03, 2023 11:20 pm
You know the history behind the priesthood ban on those of African decent. It’s not as simple as you portray it. Or DO you know the history? And the people/culture that influenced the views of those that said what they said.
What do the current views that are held…including the “we don’t know” comments…tell you? They may tell you something different than what others hear/interpret. This would be due to competing influences, knowledge, and experiences that you have had vs. what others have had.
That’s the rub. And that’s where disagreements lie.
Re: Question for Mo Experts
Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2023 12:07 am
by malkie
malkie wrote: ↑Fri Feb 03, 2023 9:29 pm
If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.
So, apparently all we need to do is to ask god - who knew?
Quoting scripture does not imply agreement with said scripture. Sometimes it is done to point out inconsistencies, or attempts by believers to dodge and weave.
OTOH, perhaps what James meant was that if some selected person(s) lack wisdom they should ask god. Depending on god's mood at the time, or on other hidden conditions, god may or may not respond. If god does respond, the response may be "Nope, not going to tell you that. So sue me."