A Mopologetic Tactic Backfires Yet Again at "SeN"

[Failed Prophecy]

So the contrast here is Carthage, which is now a Mormon tourist attraction, versus Nauvoo, which is . . . a much bigger Mormon tourist attraction?

I have no doubt Joseph Smith is far better known than Thomas Ford, but you would be surprised how many people neither know nor want to know about Joseph Smith. He is not known for his wisdom or charity or for advocacy of any political position that was ahead of his time; he is usually not cited approvingly by non-Mormons unless those non-Mormons have a quasi-Mormon background or are specifically engaged in friendly dialogue with Mormons. He is known for three things: (1) founding Mormonism (which most people are not interested in); (2) writing the Book of Mormon (which most people are not interested in); (3) polygamy (which many people are interested in, though the LDS church probably wishes they weren't).

Contrast that to people like Bartolomé de las Casas, Juana Inés de la Cruz, and William Wilberforce, who are known almost entirely for their virtue and for trying to leave the world a better place than it was when they found it.

The difference between the average non-Mormon's interest in Mormonism and how Mormons think non-Mormons have an interest in Mormonism is huge. Mormons also think that Mormonism is inherently interesting. It isn't.

There is one part of Mormonism that is inherently interesting, that could draw a crowd. And Dan, since he thinks himself a film auteur, actually could produce something cinematic that would make him a huge amount of cash and bring a lot of attention to the LDS church. He needs to produce a TV show called "Nauvoo" that tells the 1840-1844 history of Nauvoo, as long as he goes hard "R" in telling the full story. It would end up being "Game of Thrones" but costumed like "Pride and Prejudice." Plenty of violence, sex, and nudity. That's the real story of Nauvoo.

[Everybody Wang Chung]

This is just getting ridiculous. Everyone is in melt-down now. DCP, seatimer, Idaho and kiwi57 are making complete asses of themselves.

Can someone like Mike "Richard Nygren" Parker, Stephen "Bukkake" Smoot, Robert "GoFundMe" Boylan or Allen "The Slug" Wyatt call DCP and tell him to just stop embarrassing himself?

[Doctor Scratch]

Wow! Quite the meltdown indeed!

Ideeho is totally unhinged:

When you and your ilk defend something like the murder of another, because they didn’t listen or do things like you thought, you’re no different from those who defend rapists with disgusting excuses not qualitatively different from the claptrap you’re presenting here. You should look yourself in the mirror and own up to your bitterness.

And how does Ideeho feel about the Mountain Meadows Massacre, I wonder?

Meanwhile, there was this bizarre interaction:

"Whew" I didn't know such a subject could generate so much heat and so little light!

This is a photo of the grave site that my grandparents family found and memorialized of their grandmother, and my great-great- grandmother, Charlotte Rudland Dansie. She died, along with her new born baby, and was buried just west of South Pass on the Wyoming plains.

Wonderful.

Wow. Talk about venerating a “martyr complex.” Quite disgusting.

[drumdude]

DCP would have a better argument if Mormonism wasn’t currently in decline. “Look at how no one remembers the governor who allowed Smith to be killed” doesn’t really carry a lot of force when most of the planet doesn’t care much about Mormonism at all. And many who once cared have now left it in their past.

“Praise to the man” is being sung in emptier and emptier chapels every year. Thank God.

[Marcus]

Soeone parodied DCP's comment:

To the extent that Joseph and Hyrum are remembered at all, it is largely as unpleasant, fraudulent and dishonorable footnotes to the story of early American religious movements."

Just as a reminder, here's DCP's original

"they are now remembered, to the extent that they are remembered at all, as unpleasant and dishonorable footnotes to the story of Joseph, Hyrum, and the Latter-day Saints."

Kiwi, in his eagerness to defend DCP, must have missed this, becuase their upbraiding of the parody is hysterical:

Perhaps to rabid Protestant "cult fighters" and malignant atheist haters of the "all-religion-is-fraud" variety.

To informed people? Not so much.

Do you think he realizes what he just said about DCP?

[drumdude]

Great catch Marcus!

[Dr Exiled]

Joseph Smith is known because there has been an army sent out over the world proclaiming that Joseph Smith is just like Jesus and should kinda sorta be worshiped, but they never go that far, at least publicly. Without the missionary army preaching church history and elevating Joseph Smith, he wouldn't be known that much today.

[Rivendale]

Billy Shears was spectacular. He actually got DCP to go argument from popularity. But his pinnacle was pointing out how the Muhlestein effect is like a swine flu virus that masks any wrong doing despite logical coherent opposition......popcorn material...

[Doctor Scratch]

In his newest blog entry, DCP writes:

Happily, a reader who posts comments on this blog as “David Sanders” called my attention to a 2022 film called The Lost King that tells something of the story of Philippa Langley, who was the moving force behind the finding of Richard’s burial place.

Meanwhile, in the comments, he’s threatening to *ban* Sanders for questioning the attacks on Ford! Once again, the Mopologists remind us that human beings are capable of being stunningly two-faced.

[drumdude]

BS: "Despising certain historical people is an important part of your religion, it would appear."
I haven't given you permission to formulate my credo for me. I would appreciate your exercising some self-control in the future on that count. Despising people is no part of my religion, though your performance here suggests that it's intrinsic to your ideology.
Why don't you consider taking a break for a while?

Reminder of what DP said:

Latter-day Saint visitors come to Carthage to remember their history and to pay tribute to Joseph and Hyrum.

This is, putting it mildly, something that neither Governor Thomas Ford nor Thomas Sharp and his cronies expected. Once prominent in Illinois state politics, they are now remembered, to the extent that they are remembered at all, as unpleasant and dishonorable footnotes to the story of Joseph, Hyrum, and the Latter-day Saints.