DCP embarrassing himself as he continues attacking Cody, Wyoming group

[Doctor Scratch]

It’s not a precise parallel

Right, an international conflict to illustrate a small town zoning issue. Not precisely but close enough. yeah.

You have to wonder what he gets out of this—or what he *imagines* he’ll get out of this. Brownie points with the Brethren? Does one of the Apostles pat him on the head for “going to bat” for the Church in a way that Kirton McConkie never could? Does he imagine that he’ll get a larger house in the Celestial Kingdom? Will he actually go to the Cody temple—if it ever gets built—just to prove its importance? If it *does* get built, and he never goes, does that stand as proof of how much of an ineffectual blowhole he is?

[Marcus]

Actually, i think it is simply as petty as him taking offense that he was pretty immediately banned from the cody Facebook page, as though they knew in advance his reputation. If I recall correctly, he was banned from another Facebook group some years back, and his petty sniping at them went on for quite some time. It's just his ego but he can't stop himself, even though he has to know the damage he is doing.

[drumdude]

Actually, i think it is simply as petty as him taking offense that he was pretty immediately banned from the cody Facebook page, as though they knew in advance his reputation. If I recall correctly, he was banned from another Facebook group some years back, and his petty sniping at them went on for quite some time. It's just his ego but he can't stop himself, even though he has to know the damage he is doing.

In his mind he still thinks he has kept more people in the church than have left because of his shoddy apologetic arguments.

He has posted this a few times on his blog, with a handful of anecdotes. Of course he doesn’t see the army of disaffected members who didn’t announce their exit to him personally.

[Gadianton]

In his mind he still thinks he has kept more people in the church

Has anyone on his blog ever said that they doubted at one time and that FARMs saved their faith?

[I Have Questions]

Now, are there potentially legitimate issues to be worked out? Can plans for lighting be modified, for example? Might the steeple be lowered? Certainly.

https://www.patheos.com/blogs/danpeters ... least.html

Has the Church indicated a willingness to compromise on these things? I’ve yet to see any suggestion that they have. Presumably the design has been approved by the Lord, so any changes would be tantamount to admitting the process wasn’t quite as inspired as they tricked themselves into believing. The cognitive dissonance when something they thought the Lord had agreed needs changing must be intense.

Have they got a site for the Russia temple yet? The only way for Oaks to outdo that particular temple announcement (when his time comes) will be to announce the Mars temple.

[Marcus]

In his mind he still thinks he has kept more people in the church

Has anyone on his blog ever said that they doubted at one time and that FARMs saved their faith?

I predict there will be now.

[Dwight]

I bet the county/state/federal/international governing bodies recognize Cody's zoning ordinances more readily than that the Brighamite church is god's one and only true and living church?

[Doctor Scratch]

In his mind he still thinks he has kept more people in the church

Has anyone on his blog ever said that they doubted at one time and that FARMs saved their faith?

This is an important point. I remember asking at one point some years ago if the apologists had *ever* actually helped anyone’s faith, and good old EAllusion came to Dr. Peter son’s defense, saying, “Yes”— he knew of at least a person or two whose wavering faith had been helped by DCP. EA didn’t give specifics, though, and this isn’t something that the Mopologists advertise. On the other hand, DCP has commented many times on people who left despite his involvement: such as the person who was “interrogated” during the course of an SCMC inquiry.

But I don’t think that Mopologetics has ever had “saving faith” in mind when it come to goals. The goal has always been more to attack critics and to prove that people with PhDs can believe in Mormonism.

[Gadianton]

I predict there will be now.

EAllusion came to Dr. Peter son’s defense, saying, “Yes”— he knew of at least a person or two whose wavering faith had been helped by DCP

ha, yeah, but seriously, there is a catch-22 here and I'm out of my depth making the call on this one. On the one hand, there would be bragging rights and real merit to Mopologetics if they had the equivalent of MST but for people who had their faith saved by reading FARMS.

On the other hand, someone would have to admit that critical arguments caused them to doubt. The SeN apologists would never in a million years admit that a critic ever shook their faith. They consider themselves towering intellects who see all the flaws and fallacies of critic arguments immediately.

Now maybe there's some faithful fodder out there who have been helped while not considering themselves brilliant, and aren't afraid to admit they fell for faulty reasoning. Maybe FARMS has helped some of these people?

So yeah, to Marcus' point, maybe they would announce knowledge of specific people saved by FARMS, none of the SeN folks I doubt think would take the hit and say it was them though -- at least I don't think they would. But some lower-tier nobody without a Phd without a presence at FAIR/SeN? Will be interesting to see.

[Moksha]

So, how could apologists best encourage the people of Cody to allow an out-of-code Temple to be built in their community?

By attacking the code and letting the residents know it is of the Devil? What about a new translation of the code saying that bright night skies and tall steeples in a residential neighborhood are a good thing?

Also, does it help to play up the Mormon persecution angle outside of Utah?