Eternal marriage & temple endowment handshakes, tokens, signs & passwords

[Moksha]

I do think having cathedrals open to all is objectively more Christlike than secret rituals behind closed doors.

Agree, and it seems throughout the week the cathedral is open, which is really nice.

I've especially appreciated the Cathedral being open to non-Catholics for Christmas Eve Midnight Mass. What a great thing to go to with friends and feel the spirit of Christ at Christmas.

[Kishkumen]

In my opinion the Catholic mass, and the Catholic cathedrals really put the Mormon rituals and temples to shame. They look like a Mickey Mouse caricature when seen side by side.

Of course I am biased having grown up Catholic, and I’m sure Mormons are more comfortable in a temple than in a cathedral for that reason.

I do think having cathedrals open to all is objectively more Christlike than secret rituals behind closed doors. It’s hard to avoid the cult association when secrecy is so heavily involved. The west Texas fundamentalist branch even leveraged that sacred secrecy to accomplish their heinous crimes against children.

Perhaps one day Mormon leaders will have a revelation that their temples should be open to all, it would be a welcome theological innovation, I think. And foster some much needed good will from the non-Mormon world.

I think there is a place for rituals aimed at those who have shown a certain level of commitment over the years. Something not available to those who have not done similarly. Jesus taught the disciples things he did not teach others. So, I don’t agree with your view about Christlike qualities.

[malkie]

Agree, and it seems throughout the week the cathedral is open, which is really nice.

I've especially appreciated the Cathedral being open to non-Catholics for Christmas Eve Midnight Mass. What a great thing to go to with friends and feel the spirit of Christ at Christmas.

In my little branch in Scotland it was a bit of a tradition for church members to attend midnight mass at Christmas - usually including the branch president.

[Dr. Sunstoned]

Christmas Midnight mass has been a tradition in our family for many years. Even back in our TBM days we would go and take the kids. Often we would see other members of the Ward there.

[Marcus]

I used to participate in a choir that did Midnight Mass. We had a small orchestra that joined us--it was stunning and amazing. No one in the choir ever had an issue with me openly being atheist, which I truly appreciated. Beautiful music is beautiful, regardless of one's beliefs.

[Res Ipsa]

I used to participate in a choir that did Midnight Mass. We had a small orchestra that joined us--it was stunning and amazing. No one in the choir ever had an issue with me openly being atheist, which I truly appreciated. Beautiful music is beautiful, regardless of one's beliefs.

Well said. I've sung sacred music in choirs for lots of my life. It's my favorite choral music to sing. When someone close to me dies, there's a specific recording of Durufle's Requiem that I listen to in memory of their passing. I got to perform it in college. No one that I've sung with in a choir has ever asked me about my religious beliefs. And the beauty of the music has no effect on my stance toward the existence of God.

[Imwashingmypirate]

The evangelist Bible group I go to believe in marriage in the next life. They welcome death with open arms and look forward to the day they are reunited with their spouses.

I guess, we need to look at whether or not sacred rituals were done in biblical history. I'd consider sacrificing animals and even sacrificing children to be considered ritualistic.

I personally find all the symbolism of it creepy.

I do agree with the thought that if we are known as much as the scriptures say then why would we need secret handshakes to enter heaven. I haven't done more than baptisms and blessings in the temple so I don't have full information here.

I do like the temple though. It feels and smells nice in there.

I remember being told a story about a woman who went to the temple because someone suggested it. Somehow got a recommend and then asked for a cup of coffee in the temple. Apparently she wasn't even a church member. Sounds ridiculous now. Pretty sure that couldn't have happened.

In the UK, apparently, the reason we have to have marriage before temple marriage is because the queen (now king) is entitled to attend any wedding they choose. So UK Mormons get married twice. I didn't do it because I didn't marry a member. Lol.

ETA: feeling kind of leapy today clearly.

[Kishkumen]

The evangelist Bible group I go to believe in marriage in the next life. They welcome death with open arms and look forward to the day they are reunited with their spouses.

I guess, we need to look at whether or not sacred rituals were done in biblical history. I'd consider sacrificing animals and even sacrificing children to be considered ritualistic.

I personally find all the symbolism of it creepy.

I do agree with the thought that if we are known as much as the scriptures say then why would we need secret handshakes to enter heaven. I haven't done more than baptisms and blessings in the temple so I don't have full information here.

I do like the temple though. It feels and smells nice in there.

I remember being told a story about a woman who went to the temple because someone suggested it. Somehow got a recommend and then asked for a cup of coffee in the temple. Apparently she wasn't even a church member. Sounds ridiculous now. Pretty sure that couldn't have happened.

In the UK, apparently, the reason we have to have marriage before temple marriage is because the queen (now king) is entitled to attend any wedding they choose. So UK Mormons get married twice. I didn't do it because I didn't marry a member. Lol.

ETA: feeling kind of leapy today clearly.

I doubt everyone needs a particular ritual. I believe it is there for people it appeals to. Some people get a lot out of the rituals, and for them I think it is a good thing. Many are probably neutral about it and will participate partly just to fit in. Others are really turned off by it. Nothing wrong with that. It is too bad the LDS Church seems to require people who hate it to go do it. They freak out as a result, and they leave the LDS Church over it. It is counterproductive for the church, but that's the way it is. The Church teaches that everyone needs the ritual, and it tries to get all members to do it.

Maybe they should look into proxy ordinances for the living. But we all know that would open up other unfortunate cans of worms.

[Imwashingmypirate]

The evangelist Bible group I go to believe in marriage in the next life. They welcome death with open arms and look forward to the day they are reunited with their spouses.

I guess, we need to look at whether or not sacred rituals were done in biblical history. I'd consider sacrificing animals and even sacrificing children to be considered ritualistic.

I personally find all the symbolism of it creepy.

I do agree with the thought that if we are known as much as the scriptures say then why would we need secret handshakes to enter heaven. I haven't done more than baptisms and blessings in the temple so I don't have full information here.

I do like the temple though. It feels and smells nice in there.

I remember being told a story about a woman who went to the temple because someone suggested it. Somehow got a recommend and then asked for a cup of coffee in the temple. Apparently she wasn't even a church member. Sounds ridiculous now. Pretty sure that couldn't have happened.

In the UK, apparently, the reason we have to have marriage before temple marriage is because the queen (now king) is entitled to attend any wedding they choose. So UK Mormons get married twice. I didn't do it because I didn't marry a member. Lol.

ETA: feeling kind of leapy today clearly.

I doubt everyone needs a particular ritual. I believe it is there for people it appeals to. Some people get a lot out of the rituals, and for them I think it is a good thing. Many are probably neutral about it and will participate partly just to fit in. Others are really turned off by it. Nothing wrong with that. It is too bad the LDS Church seems to require people who hate it to go do it. They freak out as a result, and they leave the LDS Church over it. It is counterproductive for the church, but that's the way it is. The Church teaches that everyone needs the ritual, and it tries to get all members to do it.

Maybe they should look into proxy ordinances for the living. But we all know that would open up other unfortunate cans of worms.

Wouldn't be surprised if they did do proxy ordinances. How many members are members because someone baptised them after they died?

[Marcus]

I doubt everyone needs a particular ritual. I believe it is there for people it appeals to. Some people get a lot out of the rituals, and for them I think it is a good thing. Many are probably neutral about it and will participate partly just to fit in. Others are really turned off by it. Nothing wrong with that. It is too bad the LDS Church seems to require people who hate it to go do it. They freak out as a result, and they leave the LDS Church over it. It is counterproductive for the church, but that's the way it is. The Church teaches that everyone needs the ritual, and it tries to get all members to do it.

Maybe they should look into proxy ordinances for the living. But we all know that would open up other unfortunate cans of worms.

Wouldn't be surprised if they did do proxy ordinances. How many members are members because someone baptised them after they died?

The lds church argues that doing ordinances for dead people is not intrusive because the ordinance is just an invitation, and it must be accepted to have any meaning. (I disagree and feel it is horribly intrusive.)

Anyway, technically, until the dead person signals their acceptance, the baptism isn't supposed to make them a member. The lds church however, has so many smarmy techniques in place to boost their membership count that I wouldn't put anything past them.