Mormon Discussion Live: Latter-day Saint Insider Exposes Secret Surveillance!

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Dr. Shades
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Re: Mormon Discussion Live: Latter-day Saint Insider Exposes Secret Surveillance!

Post by Dr. Shades »

Everybody Wang Chung wrote:
Fri Mar 07, 2025 6:18 pm
The biggest surprise (and at this point I don't know why I'm surprised anymore) was the allegation that the church hires law enforcement to infiltrate wards with well-known dissidents to gather damning information.
Something is VERY fishy about that account. The anonymous person reporting this to Bill Reel talked about being recruited to spy on Mike Norton by infiltrating his ward and becoming chummy with him.

The problem is, Mike Norton resigned his membership and stopped attending any ward at all LONG before he did anything to put himself on the LDS church's radar.

Very fishy indeed.
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Re: Mormon Discussion Live: Latter-day Saint Insider Exposes Secret Surveillance!

Post by IWMP »

Dr. Shades wrote:
Tue Mar 11, 2025 8:54 am
Everybody Wang Chung wrote:
Fri Mar 07, 2025 6:18 pm
The biggest surprise (and at this point I don't know why I'm surprised anymore) was the allegation that the church hires law enforcement to infiltrate wards with well-known dissidents to gather damning information.
Something is VERY fishy about that account. The anonymous person reporting this to Bill Reel talked about being recruited to spy on Mike Norton by infiltrating his ward and becoming chummy with him.

The problem is, Mike Norton resigned his membership and stopped attending any ward at all LONG before he did anything to put himself on the LDS church's radar.

Very fishy indeed.

Maybe spying on him in the world outside of the church whilst going to church at his old ward. It's interesting how much members will share about past members.
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Re: Mormon Discussion Live: Latter-day Saint Insider Exposes Secret Surveillance!

Post by Dr Exiled »

drumdude wrote:
Tue Mar 11, 2025 4:29 am
Dr Exiled wrote:
Tue Mar 11, 2025 1:51 am
Cojcolds is at war with SATAN. Anything is justified.

I listened to the episode last night. Interesting, great episode, but sadly not surprising.
Not surprising, yes. But it’s so important that people tell these stories. It’s more data for folks to consider in joining/staying in Mormonism.
Of course. Keep it coming RFM and Co. Pick it apart until there are only financial statements to be read and investment ideas to be discussed by those that remain.
Myth is misused by the powerful to subjugate the masses all too often.
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Re: Mormon Discussion Live: Latter-day Saint Insider Exposes Secret Surveillance!

Post by Dr. Shades »

IWMP wrote:
Wed Mar 12, 2025 12:07 am
Dr. Shades wrote:
Tue Mar 11, 2025 8:54 am
Something is VERY fishy about that account. The anonymous person reporting this to Bill Reel talked about being recruited to spy on Mike Norton by infiltrating his ward and becoming chummy with him.

The problem is, Mike Norton resigned his membership and stopped attending any ward at all LONG before he did anything to put himself on the LDS church's radar.

Very fishy indeed.
Maybe spying on him in the world outside of the church whilst going to church at his old ward. It's interesting how much members will share about past members.
No, because in that case he wouldn't need to be a spy. The church could just send anyone to go and ask around.
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Re: Mormon Discussion Live: Latter-day Saint Insider Exposes Secret Surveillance!

Post by I Have Questions »

Dr. Shades wrote:
Wed Mar 12, 2025 9:30 am
IWMP wrote:
Wed Mar 12, 2025 12:07 am
Maybe spying on him in the world outside of the church whilst going to church at his old ward. It's interesting how much members will share about past members.
No, because in that case he wouldn't need to be a spy. The church could just send anyone to go and ask around.
Well, without being too candid, generally speaking there will be a person, or persons, within a ward or within a stake who will happily report back when asked to do so. These people are usually long standing members, will probably be ex stake presidents, ex mission presidents, who will have interacted with General Authorities and Apostles over the years and will have proven their loyalty. They can be asked about Person X or to chat in oblique terms to person Y to suss them out. That sounds a bit far fetched I know, but I have experienced it first hand. It's how it happens. Every Stake has one or two people (men, obviously) who are prepared to act as spies.

I'd be staggered if the Church used undercover police to integrate wards when there's a few members already in place that will happily do the job.
Premise 1. Eyewitness testimony is notoriously unreliable.
Premise 2. The best evidence for the Book of Mormon is eyewitness testimony.
Conclusion. Therefore, the best evidence for the Book of Mormon is notoriously unreliable.
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Re: Mormon Discussion Live: Latter-day Saint Insider Exposes Secret Surveillance!

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I Have Questions wrote:
Wed Mar 12, 2025 12:51 pm
I'd be staggered if the Church used undercover police to integrate wards when there's a few members already in place that will happily do the job.
Creating backup layers in a police state helps ensure greater control of the populace. The SCMC knows not to underspend its budget.
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Re: Mormon Discussion Live: Latter-day Saint Insider Exposes Secret Surveillance!

Post by rkminc »

No, because in that case he wouldn't need to be a spy. The church could just send anyone to go and ask around.
Well, without being too candid, generally speaking there will be a person, or persons, within a ward or within a stake who will happily report back when asked to do so. These people are usually long standing members, will probably be ex stake presidents, ex mission presidents, who will have interacted with General Authorities and Apostles over the years and will have proven their loyalty. They can be asked about Person X or to chat in oblique terms to person Y to suss them out. That sounds a bit far fetched I know, but I have experienced it first hand. It's how it happens. Every Stake has one or two people (men, obviously) who are prepared to act as spies.

I'd be staggered if the Church used undercover police to integrate wards when there's a few members already in place that will happily do the job.
Yes, I also have first hand experience with this. I have a very close relative who is also a former General Authority, and he happened to reside in the same Stake as Denver Snuffer. This was about 12-13 years ago. I had mentioned to my relative that I'd read some of Denver Snuffer's books and visited with Denver in his home one time, but at the time my relative was non-plussed, unaware of who Snuffer was. A couple of months later, my relative approached me and, in deliberate fashion, quizzed me about Snuffer, his beliefs, his message, etc. It was very clear as the conversation progressed that this quiz was an information-gathering assignment given to him (he alluded to this vaguely), and I assume he was given the assignment based on his presence in Stake and former leadership experience & connections.

I suspect that for high profile apostasy candidates, these types of inquiries and informal information-gathering assignments are probably commonplace to facilitate "information flow" between local and top level leaders.
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Re: Mormon Discussion Live: Latter-day Saint Insider Exposes Secret Surveillance!

Post by Moksha »

rkminc wrote:
Thu Mar 13, 2025 8:28 pm
A couple of months later, my relative approached me and, in deliberate fashion, quizzed me about Snuffer, his beliefs, his message, etc. It was very clear as the conversation progressed that this quiz was an information-gathering assignment given to him (he alluded to this vaguely), and I assume he was given the assignment based on his presence in Stake and former leadership experience & connections.

I suspect that for high profile apostasy candidates, these types of inquiries and informal information-gathering assignments are probably commonplace to facilitate "information flow" between local and top level leaders.
One of the former posters on this board, Dr. Daniel Peterson, related a story of how he helped assist with a Tribunal of the Holy Office of the Inquisition (SMSC) investigation. You could sense his elation in being involved in this sting operation. Being able to help burn apostasy candidates at the Stake Center to maintain the purity and righteousness of the Church is pretty heady stuff.

Don't want to get on the bad side of the Tribunal of the Holy Office of the Inquisition (SMSC).
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Re: Mormon Discussion Live: Latter-day Saint Insider Exposes Secret Surveillance!

Post by malkie »

Moksha wrote:
Fri Mar 14, 2025 8:03 am
rkminc wrote:
Thu Mar 13, 2025 8:28 pm
A couple of months later, my relative approached me and, in deliberate fashion, quizzed me about Snuffer, his beliefs, his message, etc. It was very clear as the conversation progressed that this quiz was an information-gathering assignment given to him (he alluded to this vaguely), and I assume he was given the assignment based on his presence in Stake and former leadership experience & connections.

I suspect that for high profile apostasy candidates, these types of inquiries and informal information-gathering assignments are probably commonplace to facilitate "information flow" between local and top level leaders.
One of the former posters on this board, Dr. Daniel Peterson, related a story of how he helped assist with a Tribunal of the Holy Office of the Inquisition (SMSC) investigation. You could sense his elation in being involved in this sting operation. Being able to help burn apostasy candidates at the Stake Center to maintain the purity and righteousness of the Church is pretty heady stuff.

Don't want to get on the bad side of the Tribunal of the Holy Office of the Inquisition (SMSC).
For sure nobody expects it :)
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Re: Mormon Discussion Live: Latter-day Saint Insider Exposes Secret Surveillance!

Post by drumdude »

DCP wrote:As a matter of fact, for whatever it’s worth, I don’t even know whether the SCMC still exists or, if so, who is on it or how to reach it.
Well at least now Dan has had his veil of ignorance lifted by this courageous young woman coming forward to educate him.

https://www.patheos.com/blogs/danpeters ... lainy.html
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