Not at the very moment a sperm penetrates the egg?
Well, if that was the case then they would treat a stillborn the same as a baby who dies shortly after birth. Because in the eyes of the Lord they would both have been spirits in possession of bodies. I think the Church is confused on this. If the Church takes a position that the spirit only becomes active when a child is born alive, then its objections to abortion are baseless.
Indeed. Unless the spirit only enters the child upon taking a breath following birth, then miscarriages would need to be entered on the records of the Mormon church and allow for temple ordinances, as would really the situation where a woman misses a period but then her periods resume the next or a later month without otherwise having a medically-diagnosed pregnancy. It might have been a very early term miscarriage, after all. Better to be on the safe side and perform the saving ordinances for that possible soul than not to do so.
Given the paradox here for the Mormon church, maybe its stance against abortion is just to penalize women for having sex and subjugating them into servitude to raise an unwanted child.
Isn't it marvelous? Isn't it a wonder?
"Only the atheist realizes how morally objectionable it is for survivors of catastrophe to believe themselves spared by a loving god, while this same God drowned infants in their cribs." Sam Harris
The harm would be equivalent to the church adding a recently-deceased 100 year-old to its records: The perception of artificial inflation of its numbers.
Only if the child were to be added as “living”. Proxy ordinances don’t inflate membership numbers but they do allow parents to feel eternally connected to deceased children. Simply allow temple ordinances for stillborn children in the same way as they are allowed for children who die prior to the age of 8.
TEMPLE ORDINANCES AREN'T PERFORMED FOR PEOPLE UNDER AGE 8, EVEN IF THE CHILD IS ALIVE. NOT EVEN BAPTISMS ARE.
The harm would be equivalent to the church adding a recently-deceased 100 year-old to its records: The perception of artificial inflation of its numbers.
The perception of padding numbers is enough for the Lord's church to withhold saving ordinances from a child of God? That looks much worse than some perceiving numbers padding.
SAVING ORDINANCES AREN'T PERFORMED FOR PEOPLE UNDER AGE 8, EVEN IF THE CHILD IS ALIVE.
Only if the child were to be added as “living”. Proxy ordinances don’t inflate membership numbers but they do allow parents to feel eternally connected to deceased children. Simply allow temple ordinances for stillborn children in the same way as they are allowed for children who die prior to the age of 8.
TEMPLE ORDINANCES AREN'T PERFORMED FOR PEOPLE UNDER AGE 8, EVEN IF THE CHILD IS ALIVE. NOT EVEN BAPTISMS ARE.
The perception of padding numbers is enough for the Lord's church to withhold saving ordinances from a child of God? That looks much worse than some perceiving numbers padding.
SAVING ORDINANCES AREN'T PERFORMED FOR PEOPLE UNDER AGE 8, EVEN IF THE CHILD IS ALIVE.
Why are you shouting? I got it wrong. That happens occasionally.
Premise 1. Eyewitness testimony is notoriously unreliable.
Premise 2. The best evidence for the Book of Mormon is eyewitness testimony.
Conclusion. Therefore, the best evidence for the Book of Mormon is notoriously unreliable.
Only if the child were to be added as “living”. Proxy ordinances don’t inflate membership numbers but they do allow parents to feel eternally connected to deceased children. Simply allow temple ordinances for stillborn children in the same way as they are allowed for children who die prior to the age of 8.
TEMPLE ORDINANCES AREN'T PERFORMED FOR PEOPLE UNDER AGE 8, EVEN IF THE CHILD IS ALIVE. NOT EVEN BAPTISMS ARE.
The perception of padding numbers is enough for the Lord's church to withhold saving ordinances from a child of God? That looks much worse than some perceiving numbers padding.
SAVING ORDINANCES AREN'T PERFORMED FOR PEOPLE UNDER AGE 8, EVEN IF THE CHILD IS ALIVE.
Shades, what is the purpose of the LDS Church creating a record for those, under 8, and giving them a blessing and a name as part of that? Why do they not do such for the still-born/miscarried/aborted? What happens, per the LDS Church, to a baby is born, takes breath, and dies before a name is pronounced as part of its blessing?
"Only the atheist realizes how morally objectionable it is for survivors of catastrophe to believe themselves spared by a loving god, while this same God drowned infants in their cribs." Sam Harris
TEMPLE ORDINANCES AREN'T PERFORMED FOR PEOPLE UNDER AGE 8, EVEN IF THE CHILD IS ALIVE. NOT EVEN BAPTISMS ARE.
SAVING ORDINANCES AREN'T PERFORMED FOR PEOPLE UNDER AGE 8, EVEN IF THE CHILD IS ALIVE.
Shades, what is the purpose of the LDS Church creating a record for those, under 8, and giving them a blessing and a name as part of that? Why do they not do such for the still-born/miscarried/aborted? What happens, per the LDS Church, to a baby is born, takes breath, and dies before a name is pronounced as part of its blessing?
Little children are redeemed through the Atonement of Jesus Christ and “saved in the celestial kingdom of heaven” (Doctrine and Covenants 137:10). For this reason, no baptism or endowment is performed for a child who died before age 8. However, sealings to parents may be performed for children who were not born in the covenant or did not receive that ordinance in life.
I note the BOLDED PART
Premise 1. Eyewitness testimony is notoriously unreliable.
Premise 2. The best evidence for the Book of Mormon is eyewitness testimony.
Conclusion. Therefore, the best evidence for the Book of Mormon is notoriously unreliable.
Shades, what is the purpose of the LDS Church creating a record for those, under 8, and giving them a blessing and a name as part of that? Why do they not do such for the still-born/miscarried/aborted? What happens, per the LDS Church, to a baby is born, takes breath, and dies before a name is pronounced as part of its blessing?
Little children are redeemed through the Atonement of Jesus Christ and “saved in the celestial kingdom of heaven” (Doctrine and Covenants 137:10). For this reason, no baptism or endowment is performed for a child who died before age 8. However, sealings to parents may be performed for children who were not born in the covenant or did not receive that ordinance in life.
I note the BOLDED PART
Does "little children" include still-born/miscarried/aborted?
In any event--but maybe not exalted to the highest level of the CK because not sealed to a mate (i.e., temple married)?
"Only the atheist realizes how morally objectionable it is for survivors of catastrophe to believe themselves spared by a loving god, while this same God drowned infants in their cribs." Sam Harris
Does "little children" include still-born/miscarried/aborted?
In any event--but maybe not exalted to the highest level of the CK because not sealed to a mate (i.e., temple married)?
As I said, the Church is all over the place with this.
Premise 1. Eyewitness testimony is notoriously unreliable.
Premise 2. The best evidence for the Book of Mormon is eyewitness testimony.
Conclusion. Therefore, the best evidence for the Book of Mormon is notoriously unreliable.
