The "Official" Witnesses Trailer Drops

[Dr Exiled]

David Whitmer and the mob seems to be a product of mopologetic license. Also, Joseph is still shown to be running with 50 lbs plates as if they weighed only 5 lbs. Given how this is supposed to be about a "truthful" event, one would think that more attention would be paid to detail, but the church has been jazzing up their history since its inception, so why stop now?

Sorry if I come off as a petty non-believer Dr. P, but I would think that since there has been a lot said about the church hiding or misrepresenting history to make it more palatable to member and non-member alike, you would be more zealous in your portrayal. If the plates weighed 50 lbs as your film claims they did, Joseph Smith could not have carried them in his right arm like so many running backs do before they hit the hole. He would have had to use both hands, would have been stooped over, and wouldn't have been able to run that fast, if at all. If you don't believe me, perhaps have one of the BYU running backs attempt to run like it is portrayed in the trailer with a 50 lbs block. And if you do, please film it and put it up on sic et non or the interpreter site. I bet they can't do it as is portrayed in the film trailer. However, Joseph Smith was kinda like a superhero, allegedly. So there is that.

[Lem]

David Whitmer and the mob seems to be a product of mopologetic license. Also, Joseph is still shown to be running with 50 lbs plates as if they weighed only 5 lbs. Given how this is supposed to be about a "truthful" event, one would think that more attention would be paid to detail, but the church has been jazzing up their history since its inception, so why stop now?

Sorry if I come off as a petty non-believer Dr. P, but I would think that since there has been a lot said about the church hiding or misrepresenting history to make it more palatable to member and non-member alike, you would be more zealous in your portrayal. If the plates weighed 50 lbs as your film claims they did, Joseph Smith could not have carried them in his right arm like so many running backs do before they hit the hole. He would have had to use both hands, would have been stooped over, and wouldn't have been able to run that fast, if at all. If you don't believe me, perhaps have one of the BYU running backs attempt to run like it is portrayed in the trailer with a 50 lbs block. And if you do, please film it and put it up on sic et non or the interpreter site. I bet they can't do it as is portrayed in the film trailer. However, Joseph Smith was kinda like a superhero, allegedly. So there is that.

I’ll have to see if I can find the reference, but at one point it was revealed that two sets of plates were made for the movie, one being a lightweight set so that the chase scenes could be filmed. Right there, credibility is lost, but given the number off scenes that don’t really match history, I get the sense this is no longer the movie about the witnesses that Peterson wanted to make, but rather the movie update of ‘Smith, American Prophet’ that the director wanted to remake.

[Tom]

The mob incident in the trailer, where David Whitmer is dragged from his house and asked to recant his testimony - what historical event is that a portrayal of?

I presume the incident was inspired by the following:

“[W]hen the mob again assembled, they went to the houses of several of the leading Mormons; and, taking Isaac Morley, David Whitmer, and others, they told them to bid their families farewell, for they would never see them again. Then driving them at the point of the bayonet to the public square, they stripped and tarred and feathered them, amidst menaces and insults. The commanding officer then called twelve of his men, and ordering them to cock their guns and present them at the prisoner's breasts, and to be ready to fire when he gave the word,--he addressed the prisoners, threatening them with instant death, unless they denied the Book of Mormon and confessed it to be a fraud; at the same time adding, that if they did so, they might enjoy the privileges of citizens. David Whitmer, hereupon, lifted up his hands and bore witness that the Book of Mormon was the Word of God. The mob then let them go.”

John P. Greene, Facts Relative to the Expulsion of the Mormons or Latter-day Saints, from the State of Missouri, Under the "Exterminating Order" (1839), 17, https://contentdm.lib.BYU.edu/digital/c ... 46/id/2531.

“I have been surrounded by hostile mobs, on one occasion numbering four or five hundred, demanding I should deny what is published over my name in the Book of Mormon; but the testimony I gave to that mob made them fear and tremble, and I escaped from them. One gentleman, a doctor, an unbeliever, told me afterwards that the bold and fearless testimony borne on that occasion and the fear that seemed to take hold of the mob had made him a believer in the Book of Mormon.”

Letter from James H. Hart, Deseret Evening News, Sept. 4, 1883, p. 2, https://newspapers.lib.utah.edu/file?id=23176783 (third column from left).

[Doctor CamNC4Me]

Four or five hundred you say...

- Doc

[Tom]

Four or five hundred you say...

- Doc

I heard that the mob numbered 1,000, several angels appeared on the scene, fire came down from heaven, Dr. Midgley knocked out a few ruffians with his intellect, and the entire mob immediately joined the church.

[Moksha]

I heard that the mob numbered 1,000, several angels appeared on the scene, fire came down from heaven, Dr. Midgley knocked out a few ruffians with his intellect, and the entire mob immediately joined the church.

Wasn't Dr. Midgley later involved with an infestation of Mormon crickets in 1847? Something about him demonstrating to the summoned California gulls how best to consume the hoard of crickets. The pioneer diaries were a bit sketchy on details.

[Equality]

David Whitmer and the mob seems to be a product of mopologetic license. Also, Joseph is still shown to be running with 50 lbs plates as if they weighed only 5 lbs. Given how this is supposed to be about a "truthful" event, one would think that more attention would be paid to detail, but the church has been jazzing up their history since its inception, so why stop now?

Sorry if I come off as a petty non-believer Dr. P, but I would think that since there has been a lot said about the church hiding or misrepresenting history to make it more palatable to member and non-member alike, you would be more zealous in your portrayal. If the plates weighed 50 lbs as your film claims they did, Joseph Smith could not have carried them in his right arm like so many running backs do before they hit the hole. He would have had to use both hands, would have been stooped over, and wouldn't have been able to run that fast, if at all. If you don't believe me, perhaps have one of the BYU running backs attempt to run like it is portrayed in the trailer with a 50 lbs block. And if you do, please film it and put it up on sic et non or the interpreter site. I bet they can't do it as is portrayed in the film trailer. However, Joseph Smith was kinda like a superhero, allegedly. So there is that.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08wRRff8x0k

[Lem]

Peterson's story has now changed about the weight of the Plates used in the movie:

First, yet more evidence he reads here obsessively:

Some critics, accordingly, have contended that Joseph Smith could not have carried them for any significant distance, let alone run with them through the woods. The plates — if they actually existed and weighed as much as the witnesses say they did — were simply too heavy. Thus, these critics argue, at least that portion of his story must be fraudulent.

https://www.patheos.com/blogs/danpeters ... lates.html

So, he outlines the method used for the movie. From his post, January of 2021:

I was not present on the outdoor “set” for that day’s filming, but here’s some background on the scene that is directly relevant to the critics’ argument. It’s based on communication with Russell Richins and James G. Jordan, who are, respectively, the producer and associate producer of Witnesses:

Filming “Joseph Smith” with the plates, and running from and interacting with the attackers, took a considerable amount of time.

Knowing that filming the scene of Joseph running with the plates would require several hours, Paul Wuthrich was presented with the option of going with something lighter as a prop. He opted to use the two prop sets of plates that metallurgist Dave Baird had created, based on Baird’s careful research. Somewhat amusingly, one set came to be called the “non-hero set.” They weighed somewhere between thirty (30) and thirty-five (35) pounds. We’re more certain of the weight of the other set — unsurprisingly labeled the “hero set” — because Russell Richins weighed them himself. They came in at forty-five (45) pounds. In other words, at roughly the weight of the historical plates themselves.

During the relevant filming day, the two sets were switched out at various times. Sometimes the secondary or “non-hero” prop was used, and sometimes the “hero set.” “At all times,” comments Russell Richins, “when you see Paul Wuthrich running or using the plates in the scenes, he is using one of these two sets.

https://www.patheos.com/blogs/danpeters ... lates.html

But here is the version from November of 2019:

I’ve seen the criticism that the plates were too heavy, that Joseph Smith could not possibly have run through the woods carrying them.

Well. There were two prop sets of plates at the disposal of the filmmakers. One of them was quite light, for convenience. The second was roughly the weight of the real historical plates themselves. When our people were filming the scene in which young Joseph Smith runs through the woods while being pursued by money diggers who are intent on gaining possession of the Book of Mormon plates, they gave Paul Wuthrich the option of using the lighter prop. After all, he would be running down the hill repeatedly, carrying the plates, jumping over rocks and logs, trying to avoid low branches. He would be doing this over and over again, for different takes. Repeating the effort so that filming could be done from a variety of angles.

He tested the lighter set of plates, and then chose to go with the heavier ones so that the scene would be more realistic. https://www.patheos.com/blogs/danpeters ... lates.html

So, either the heavy plates were used exclusively, OR, they were switched out regularly for the lighter plates.

Also, either the lighter plates were 30-35 pounds, OR, they were "quite light, for convenience."

Given Peterson's record of plagiarism, I'm not inclined to take his word for any of this.

[Doctor CamNC4Me]

You wanna know how I know Plagiarizin’ Peterson just makes things up? Ain’t no one “jumping over rocks and logs” with a 45 lbs block of anything in their hands. You gotta hand it to the fat man. He’s immutable to facts.

Please note at :45 the prop plates bouncing spryly off the ground. If they were 35 lbs or higher they just thud into the loamy ground. Also, remember the ‘Batman’ scene where Joseph Smith whipped the plates around and ‘doinked’ the attacker in the head? You’re not doing that with a 35 lbs + anything.

It’s all so tiresome.

- Doc

[Dr Exiled]

Dr. P, just admit it already and take responsibility. The running story doesn't work unless one appeals to the supernatural. I remember hearing the story for the first time when I was in high school and thinking that Joseph had to have been endowed by God with super powers at the time in order to have been able to carry out the feat he claimed (without witnesses of course). And the three just happened to know that he would be running off road in the woods and know where to hide in order to surprise our superhero? A marvelous feat indeed in our eyes, yes. I remember asking one of your apologist buddies at the debate set up by Grant Palmer back in the 80's at East High seminary about how it was possible for Joseph to run and evade his attackers while carrying 50 plus lbs, assuming it was that light, and the apologist BYU professor admitted that it would require help from God.

Further, I find it comical that you blame your producer and co-producer. Don't you control the project? How about having one of the characters comment on how God must have been there helping our superhero as he ran. At least that would bring the thing back to plausibility. Don't you think the youth will look at this and laugh to no end? I am sure videos like the one Equality posted above will circulate should your film be shown to BYU students in their religion classes, as you claimed last year would happen. Kids are smart and sloppy portrayals, regardless of the excuse of it taking too long to portray correctly, will hurt your cause. However, the quality is good if the trailer is similar to the final product. Also, it is a theatrical portrayal and why adhere to history or plausibility when story would have to be sacrificed? Perhaps put in a blurb about it being loosely based on facts and logic?