Cognitive Distortion #1: Lies and Deceit

[_harmony]

While you are correct that I am not married nor have I had children. However, as explained earlier in the thread, the PRINCIPLES that I have CHOOSEN, and would CHOOSE in the unlikely event that I changed paradigms, are PRINCIPLES that I believe WORK in relationships in general, and not just in terms of one's relationship with the Church and/or relationships with those in the Church.

Granted, having a faithful spouse and children would increase the complexity of the challenge when walking away. But, even still I believe the most WORKABLE way to manage and perhaps surmount the more complex challenge is as explained. In fact, given the greater permutations of relationships and complexity, I believe the CHOICES I outline above are even more viable and critical to preserving and potentially enhancing those realtions.

In other words, you haven't a clue what it's like for them, but you're going to deny their experiences just the same. Typical.

Certainly, from the extensive experiences that I have had in a various types of relationship (familial, friendship, business, community, governmental, etc.)...[snip]

Extensive? Oh boy. Wade, you don't have experience in the most important relationship a man can have, so just how extensive can your experience be? You've never married anyone, never had children. There is NOTHING that Trump's that, nothing. You've been a son, you might have been a brother, but you've never been a husband or a father, and both of those are relationships that many of the "angry, dysfunctional" men you rail against have had and are trying to preserve. And if they vent their anger on line on an anonymous discussion board, instead of taking it out on their wife and family, more power to them.

... I see it far more WORKABLE than becoming judgemental, accusatory, hyper-sensative, dis-respectful, unloving, non-charitable, closed-minded, unnecessarily hurtful and angry and grieving and venting in a way that may tend to precipitate a cycle of hurt and anger and grief.

Your ignorance is showing. One has to go through the grief cycle in order to recover from any trauma. Circumventing the grief cycle can result in later dysfunction, PTS, depression, substance abuse, etc. If you don't know this, I suggest you go back and study your counseling curriculum again; you missed something very important the first time.

To me, the latter may well be, and has even been for me at times, a recipe for depression, anxiety, loneliness, discontent, bitterness, and so forth--things I would just as soon avoid like the plague.

And yet your "ignore it all and go on with life" can also result in exactly what you mention here. People have to deal with trauma, Wade. Shoving it in the closet and ignoring it more often than not results in dysfunction later.

[_Yoda]

*applauds Harmony* Yay, Harmony!

For the record, Harmony is a paid professional counselor. Somehow, I think her understanding of the grief process Trump's Wade's armchair advice.

[_Runtu]

*applauds Harmony* Yay, Harmony!

For the record, Harmony is a paid professional counselor. Somehow, I think her understanding of the grief process Trump's Wade's armchair advice.

I don't know what to make of Wade. Every time I begin to think that maybe he is really trying to help, he goes off and says something inane and offensive. His latest rant in Tal's interview was breathtaking, frankly. Is he genuinely trying to help, or does he get some sadistic pleasure in poking people with verbal sticks? I honestly don't know.

[_wenglund]

While you are correct that I am not married nor have I had children. However, as explained earlier in the thread, the PRINCIPLES that I have CHOOSEN, and would CHOOSE in the unlikely event that I changed paradigms, are PRINCIPLES that I believe WORK in relationships in general, and not just in terms of one's relationship with the Church and/or relationships with those in the Church.

Granted, having a faithful spouse and children would increase the complexity of the challenge when walking away. But, even still I believe the most WORKABLE way to manage and perhaps surmount the more complex challenge is as explained. In fact, given the greater permutations of relationships and complexity, I believe the CHOICES I outline above are even more viable and critical to preserving and potentially enhancing those realtions.

In other words, you haven't a clue what it's like for them, but you're going to deny their experiences just the same. Typical.

Certainly, from the extensive experiences that I have had in a various types of relationship (familial, friendship, business, community, governmental, etc.)...[snip]

Extensive? Oh boy. Wade, you don't have experience in the most important relationship a man can have, so just how extensive can your experience be? You've never married anyone, never had children. There is NOTHING that Trump's that, nothing. You've been a son, you might have been a brother, but you've never been a husband or a father, and both of those are relationships that many of the "angry, dysfunctional" men you rail against have had and are trying to preserve. And if they vent their anger on line on an anonymous discussion board, instead of taking it out on their wife and family, more power to them.

I find it richly ironic that a woman would be dismissing what a man says solely on the basis that the man hasn't experienced certain relationships as a man. Shouldn't, then, by that same banal "reasoning", the woman should dismiss what she is saying to the man because she hasn't experienced any relationships as a man? Certainly, consistency would demand it.

But, I care too much about you harmony/serenity/WAZing to argue with you about it.

... I see it far more WORKABLE than becoming judgemental, accusatory, hyper-sensative, dis-respectful, unloving, non-charitable, closed-minded, unnecessarily hurtful and angry and grieving and venting in a way that may tend to precipitate a cycle of hurt and anger and grief.

Your ignorance is showing. One has to go through the grief cycle in order to recover from any trauma. Circumventing the grief cycle can result in later dysfunction, PTS, depression, substance abuse, etc. If you don't know this, I suggest you go back and study your counseling curriculum again; you missed something very important the first time.

To me, the latter may well be, and has even been for me at times, a recipe for depression, anxiety, loneliness, discontent, bitterness, and so forth--things I would just as soon avoid like the plague.

And yet your "ignore it all and go on with life" can also result in exactly what you mention here. People have to deal with trauma, Wade. Shoving it in the closet and ignoring it more often than not results in dysfunction later.

I can see that you are heavy into emotive and justification mode, which often leads to various forms of deflecting, such as: unwarranted discounting, accusations, denial, selective reading, hyper-criticism, argumentativeness, and so forth, and lends itself also to both reading things into what others say (such as erroneously and insipidly thinking I am denying people their "experience" and that I have supposedly suggested shoving trauma into the closet and ignoring it), but also not correctly seeing what others do say (such as my repeated and explicit statements that I do not think that suppressing emotions is, for the most part, a healthy thing). Apparently, you believe that WORKS for you. Let us pray for your husband's and children's sake that you don't WORK that same strategy with them at home.

But, as indicated several times previously, it doesn't WORK for me, and I care too much about you to argue with you about this. In fact, this will be my last statement to that affect in response to the petty nits you have CHOSEN to pick. I had thought to do so before, but I believed you deserving the respect of a reply as well as an explanation.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[_wenglund]

*applauds Harmony* Yay, Harmony!

For the record, Harmony is a paid professional counselor. Somehow, I think her understanding of the grief process Trump's Wade's armchair advice.

I don't know what to make of Wade. Every time I begin to think that maybe he is really trying to help, he goes off and says something inane and offensive. His latest rant in Tal's interview was breathtaking, frankly. Is he genuinely trying to help, or does he get some sadistic pleasure in poking people with verbal sticks? I honestly don't know.

I would suggest going with your instincts. But, in your passive/aggressive way, my merely suggesting something may well be interpreted as a verbal stick to your eye. In other words, given the dysfunctionally self-protective, entrenched, and closed minds that I am attempting "assist" here, there is virtually no way for me to help without being perceived as a stick in the eye. In fact, there is little chance of me helping at all--though, my caring about you all makes me a hopeless optimist. Again, maybe, just maybe, one of the seed I have attempted to plant won't dry up and blow away from the parched and rocky soil in certain minds, or be overrun with debilitating emotional/intellectual weeds, but may chance blossoming some day into healthy and vibrant mustard tree. I believe miracles can happen.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[_harmony]

I find it richly ironic that a woman would be dismissing what a man says solely on the basis that the man hasn't experienced certain relationships as a man. Shouldn't, then, by that same banal "reasoning", the woman should dismiss what she is saying to the man because she hasn't experienced any relationships as a man? Certainly, consistency would demand it.

I am a spouse, Wade. I am a parent. You are neither. While I don't claim to experience those roles the same way a man would, I am closer to their experiences than you are, since all you share is gender, not marital status or parenthood.

[snip insincere balderdash] harmony/serenity/WAZing to argue with you about it.

Just harmony will do, Wade. Everyone knows who I am, what my many nicknames are, and what to expect from me, Wade. You gain nothing here by listing them. And you forgot a couple. You need to add Blink and Dill Pickles to your list. No one here faults me for using different nicknames, so your implied criticism is wasted on this crowd. What got you applause on FAIR and ZLMB gets nothing here.

I can see that you are heavy into emotive and justification mode, which often leads to various forms of deflecting, such as: unwarranted discounting, accusations, denial, selective reading, hyper-criticism, argumentativeness, and so forth, and lends itself also to both reading things into what others say (such as erroneously and insipidly thinking I am denying people their "experience" and that I have supposedly suggested shoving trauma into the closet and ignoring it), but also not correctly seeing what others do say (such as my repeated and explicit statements that I do not think that suppressing emotions is, for the most part, a healthy thing).

That's all one sentence! 103 words! Goodnightshirt, I think you set a record for long-winded blather! And that's all it is, Wade: blather.

Apparently, you believe that WORKS for you. Let us pray for your husband's and children's sake that you don't WORK that same strategy with them at home.

You know nothing about strategies at home, family, spouse, etc., Wade. You're single, remember? Kindly stick to your area of expertise, and leave off with what Liz refers to as "arm chair" analysis.

But, as indicated several times previously, it doesn't WORK for me, and I care too much about you to argue with you about this.

Balderdash. You know when you're unable to mount a defense. Retiring from the discussion under those circumstances is no doubt your best bet. Find another subject, Wade. You're 'way out of your depth in this one.

[_OUT OF MY MISERY]

I like you....and starving the beast does work the best

It is kinda of like holding a carrot in front of a horse....and the horse never getting the carrot...and after a while the horse just gives up

I like my Meredith Brooks type new friend as well.

I'm a bitch, I'm a lover, I'm a child, I'm a mother, I'm a sinner, I'm a saint, I do not feel ashamed...

:-)

But sadly, our little "bear" is deep in his psychosis, and will never give up. He'll be dangling after that carrot from the grave, my dear.

So true GIMR....I am picturing that now dangling after that carrot from his grave...that is actualy very very funny
Our bear perhaps need to hibernate some and come out in the spring???
After he is well rested and .........there is more light...right now in the winter it is a little darker...can't see clear in the dark
I hope he has a good store of food for the winter....because he might wake up early....and be really grumpy...then we would have to relocated him futher into the forest far far away...

[_beastie]

I see it far more WORKABLE than becoming judgemental, accusatory, hyper-sensative, dis-respectful, unloving, non-charitable, closed-minded, unnecessarily hurtful and angry and grieving and venting in a way that may tend to precipitate a cycle of hurt and anger and grief.

We all know Wade is a model and exemplar in this regard. For example, he would never think of calling exbelievers fundamentalists and/or bigots, neither would he accuse people of being "judgmental, accusatory, hyper-sensitive, disrespectful, unloving, non-charitable, close-minded, unnecessarily hurtful and angry" because, after all, he's trying to stop the cycle of hurt and anger and grief.

You are a raging hypocrite, Wade. You consistently attack exbelievers, your entire focus is attacking exbelievers and accusing them of "cognitive distortions" (and fundamentalism and bigotry) and yet you imagine you can argue for tolerance, charity, nonjudgmental attitudes, etc - with any degree of moral authority?

[_Mister Scratch]

I see it far more WORKABLE than becoming judgemental, accusatory, hyper-sensative, dis-respectful, unloving, non-charitable, closed-minded, unnecessarily hurtful and angry and grieving and venting in a way that may tend to precipitate a cycle of hurt and anger and grief.

We all know Wade is a model and exemplar in this regard. For example, he would never think of calling exbelievers fundamentalists and/or bigots, neither would he accuse people of being "judgmental, accusatory, hyper-sensitive, disrespectful, unloving, non-charitable, close-minded, unnecessarily hurtful and angry" because, after all, he's trying to stop the cycle of hurt and anger and grief.

You are a raging hypocrite, Wade. You consistently attack exbelievers, your entire focus is attacking exbelievers and accusing them of "cognitive distortions" (and fundamentalism and bigotry) and yet you imagine you can argue for tolerance, charity, nonjudgmental attitudes, etc - with any degree of moral authority?

Gee, I wonder if we should re-post the material from his "Sexual Attraction Disorders" webpage, and discuss how many WORKABLE solutions it offers up.

"Do you agree that a WORKABLE solution involves at least partially implicating the Church? If not, why not?"

[_wenglund]

I see it far more WORKABLE than becoming judgemental, accusatory, hyper-sensative, dis-respectful, unloving, non-charitable, closed-minded, unnecessarily hurtful and angry and grieving and venting in a way that may tend to precipitate a cycle of hurt and anger and grief.

We all know Wade is a model and exemplar in this regard. For example, he would never think of calling exbelievers fundamentalists and/or bigots, neither would he accuse people of being "judgmental, accusatory, hyper-sensitive, disrespectful, unloving, non-charitable, close-minded, unnecessarily hurtful and angry" because, after all, he's trying to stop the cycle of hurt and anger and grief.

You are a raging hypocrite, Wade. You consistently attack exbelievers, your entire focus is attacking exbelievers and accusing them of "cognitive distortions" (and fundamentalism and bigotry) and yet you imagine you can argue for tolerance, charity, nonjudgmental attitudes, etc - with any degree of moral authority?

So...has my attacking and hypocrisy WORKED?

If not...then why do you suppose it has or will WORK for any of you?

Thanks, -Wade Englund-