Suggestions Please

[_wenglund]

Actually, the disasters have already occured, and my efforts are intented to clean up the mess created thereby and avert further disasters.

The disasters have happened because parties on both sides of the perceived divide have been intent on looking externally for their problems, have focused on accessing blame rather than on finding mutually benefitial solutions, and have sought validation and venting for their ill-feelings, rather than looking for functional ways to heal and attain the basic human needs of mutual love, value, and respect. And, the disasters are bound to repeat themselves unless that "recipe" is changed.

So, in essence, your solution involves removing "blame" from the consideration, right?

For the most part, yes, removing blame from consideration is a part of the solution.

Maybe I've been misreading you. I understood you to say that healing couldn't take place until I admitted that the church was not at all at fault.

What I am suggesting is that healing takes place when we each, individually and collectively, shift our focus from blaming and fault-finding, to implementing the Guiding Principles and other interventions I have in mind. This applies to all parties concerned--i.e. believers in relation to unbelievers, and vice versa.

If I am reading you correctly, you're saying that it doesn't matter who is to blame but rather how we deal with the situation. If that's right, I think we might agree after all.

Essentially, yes, that is what I am saying. I am glad we agree.

I am offer a proven and workable change to that "recipe". But, it is up to those expriencing disasters to CHOOSE to accept that offer to change, or not. Thanks, -Wade Englund-

How does one choose to accept? What must one do first?

First, it is a matter of understanding and accepting the Guiding Principles. Once that is done, then it is simply a matter of implementing the Guiding Principles in conjunction with select interventions. And, where there may be some question of how to apply those principles in certain cases and with certain issue, then I will be happy to assist.

I am hoping that as things progress, a body of cases will be developed to not only illuminate and illustrate how the principles and interventions may be applied, but also as evidence of the workability of the principles/interventions. Also, those who become more practiced in the principles/interventions may then be utilized as a resource in helping newcomers as well as others who are perhaps struggling in certain ways.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[_wenglund]

Right moksha, getting rid of recess to burn off that excess energy and pumping kids full of drugs to mellow them out is much better.

What other recomendations do you expect from these post 60's college graduates?

What post 60's college graduates? What are you talking about here? Mellow who out? What would your suggestions be for children who have ADD? Jersey Girl

I think he is talking about the pro-drug generation.

There are a variety of non-pharmaseutical interventions that are currently being offered and under development. See HERE, HERE, HERE, HERE, HERE, HERE.

ADD and ADHD, like Bipolar disorder, are often used as grabbags for a number of ailments of varying severity. Consequently, there are a number of misconceptions about these conditions, and not a few mis-diagnosis.

For my part, I think the very names are somewhat misleading. From my experience, children and adults that have been diagnosed with these conditions don't have attention deficites, but rather they are often hyper attentive to various things, and have difficulty shifting from the area of hyper-focus to other areas of importance and survival. I discovered this while observing certain youth with ADD absolutely rivetted for hours to their Gameboys and X-Boxes.

What concerns me about Ritlin and other drugs that have been perscribed, is the tendency for children to become drug-dependant, and to look to drugs as a means of solving their problems. I haven't looked up any relevant studies, but I would venture a guess that there are a disproportionate number of people suffering from substance abuse (like alcoholism) who grew up on Ritlin.

Also, it may not be coincedental that all of the highly publicized school shootings were done by kids who were either on Ritlin, or who had been on Ritlin for a substantial period of time.

Anyway, to some degree Gaz has a point. This is not to say that pharmiceuticals are necessarily inappropriate or appropriate. I am just advising caution, and suggesting that other alternitives be tried first, and that pharmaceuticals be reserved to only when necessary, and when perscibed by a licensed professional.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-[/url]

[_Jersey Girl]

Right moksha, getting rid of recess to burn off that excess energy and pumping kids full of drugs to mellow them out is much better.

What other recomendations do you expect from these post 60's college graduates?

What post 60's college graduates? What are you talking about here? Mellow who out? What would your suggestions be for children who have ADD? Jersey Girl

I think he is talking about the pro-drug generation.

There are a variety of non-pharmaseutical interventions that are currently being offered and under development. See HERE, HERE, HERE, HERE, HERE, HERE.

ADD and ADHD, like Bipolar disorder, are often used as grabbags for a number of ailments of varying severity. Consequently, there are a number of misconceptions about these conditions, and not a few mis-diagnosis.

For my part, I think the very names are somewhat misleading. From my experience, children and adults that have been diagnosed with these conditions don't have attention deficites, but rather they are often hyper attentive to various things, and have difficulty shifting from the area of hyper-focus to other areas of importance and survival. I discovered this while observing certain youth with ADD absolutely rivetted for hours to their Gameboys and X-Boxes.

What concerns me about Ritlin and other drugs that have been perscribed, is the tendency for children to become drug-dependant, and to look to drugs as a means of solving their problems. I haven't looked up any relevant studies, but I would venture a guess that there are a disproportionate number of people suffering from substance abuse (like alcoholism) who grew up on Ritlin.

Also, it may not be coincedental that all of the highly publicized school shootings were done by kids who were either on Ritlin, or who had been on Ritlin for a substantial period of time.

Anyway, to some degree Gaz has a point. This is not to say that pharmiceuticals are necessarily inappropriate or appropriate. I am just advising caution, and suggesting that other alternitives be tried first, and that pharmaceuticals be reserved to only when necessary, and when perscibed by a licensed professional.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-[/url]

wade,

With all due respect, I know a little something about ADD/HD, treatments and outcomes. I'd like to see what Gaz has to say in the way of response.

Just for the sake of argument, do you have a concern that a diabetic child who takes insulin shots would look to drugs as a means of solving their problems?

Jersey Girl

*Please take note that I have not offered an opinion on the use of Ritalin or other medications to treat Attention Deficit Disorders so please don't jump to conclusions.

[_wenglund]

Hi, Wade. Just wanted to let you know that I hereby volunteer to help out with your new website. I will gladly proffer advice, help with administrative duties, and so forth. I would say that I'm qualified because I once read a Dr. Laura book. I also have a bit of educational background in both psychology and sociology, for what it's worth. So: what do you say? Are you willing to take me on board?

While your reading and educational background may be of some help, it is more important that you ascribe to and adhere to the Guiding Principles. If you do, then you are welcome both as a facilitator and a participant. Thanks, -Wade Englund-

Wade, what are you talking about? I have *always* been a shining example of those Guiding Principles in action! Now, would you care to sign on the dotted line here in bloo... er, I mean ink?

Hi Scratch,

I am encouraged by your willing support and enthusiasm.

Let's see how you might handle a hypothetical test case:

Suzi is in her early 30's, single (never married and no kids), return missionary, and has been active in the Church all her life. There have been several traumatic events in her life that have shaken her faith in God, but more so in the Church. Because of her loss of faith, she doesn't feel welcomed or at home in the singles ward she was attending, and even less so in married wards she has tried out on occasion. She is embittered against the Church, and to some degree God, for all the troubles she has been forced to face in her life, as well as the lack of success in realizing her most treasured dream--i.e. marriage.

How would you go about helping this person to heal?

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[_harmony]

Hi, Wade. Just wanted to let you know that I hereby volunteer to help out with your new website. I will gladly proffer advice, help with administrative duties, and so forth. I would say that I'm qualified because I once read a Dr. Laura book. I also have a bit of educational background in both psychology and sociology, for what it's worth. So: what do you say? Are you willing to take me on board?

While your reading and educational background may be of some help, it is more important that you ascribe to and adhere to the Guiding Principles. If you do, then you are welcome both as a facilitator and a participant. Thanks, -Wade Englund-

Wade, what are you talking about? I have *always* been a shining example of those Guiding Principles in action! Now, would you care to sign on the dotted line here in bloo... er, I mean ink?

Hi Scratch,

I am encouraged by your willing support and enthusiasm.

Let's see how you might handle a hypothetical test case:

Suzi is in her early 30's, single (never married and no kids), return missionary, and has been active in the Church all her life. There have been several traumatic events in her life that have shaken her faith in God, but more so in the Church. Because of her loss of faith, she doesn't feel welcomed or at home in the singles ward she was attending, and even less so in married wards she has tried out on occasion. She is embittered against the Church, and to some degree God, for all the troubles she has been forced to face in her life, as well as the lack of success in realizing her most treasured dream--i.e. marriage.

How would you go about helping this person to heal?

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

The problem with this idea is that these are not hypothetical people. They're real people, with real problems, and what they need is a real counselor, not a faceless, nameless, noncredentialed nonentity on the internet. And then there's the ethical issues.

[_Jersey Girl]

The problem with this idea is that these are not hypothetical people. They're real people, with real problems, and what they need is a real counselor, not a faceless, nameless, noncredentialed nonentity on the internet. And then there's the ethical issues.

I have to agree with you, harm. And the test case description is missing too much. Can we size up a person and their true issues in one paragraph? I don't think so.

Jersey Girl

And p.s. to Scratch, Dr. Laura isn't a psychotherapist.

[_wenglund]

wade,

With all due respect, I know a little something about ADD/HD, treatments and outcomes. I'd like to see what Gaz has to say in the way of response.

Just for the sake of argument, do you have a concern that a diabetic child who takes insulin shots would look to drugs as a means of solving their problems? Jersey Girl

No. Nor do I think things like cold medicines, asprine, kemotherapy, flu and other shots, and drugs of a similar nature, are prone to engendering that kind of thinking.

Rather, it is the mood and psychological drugs that I think may make kids more susceptible.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[_wenglund]

The problem with this idea is that these are not hypothetical people. They're real people, with real problems, and what they need is a real counselor, not a faceless, nameless, noncredentialed nonentity on the internet. And then there's the ethical issues.

Should I take this as a rousing condemnation of RFM? ;-)

Actually, the hypothetical is based on a real person who has real problems, whom I personally have and will continue to help.

Shouldn't you at least wait to see how Scratch or I intervene on her behalf before prematurely and perhaps misguidedly raising issues of ethics and deciding what is needed on her behalf and what is not?

Do you see anything in my Guiding Principles that even comes close to violating any ethics whatsoever, let alone require face-to-face treatment by a credentialed entity?

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[_harmony]

The problem with this idea is that these are not hypothetical people. They're real people, with real problems, and what they need is a real counselor, not a faceless, nameless, noncredentialed nonentity on the internet. And then there's the ethical issues.

Should I take this as a rousing condemnation of RFM? ;-)

Actually, the hypothetical is based on a real person who has real problems, whom I personally have and will continue to help.

Shouldn't you at least wait to see how Scratch or I intervene on her behalf before prematurely and perhaps misguidedly raising issues of ethics and deciding what is needed on her behalf and what is not?

Do you see anything in my Guiding Principles that even comes close to violating any ethics whatsoever, let alone require face-to-face treatment by a credentialed entity?

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

I'm not objecting per se to your hypothetical, Wade. I'm objecting to the whole idea.

If you were a credentialed counselor, you'd know what I'm objecting to. And you'd know why.

[_wenglund]

I'm not objecting per se to your hypothetical, Wade. I'm objecting to the whole idea.

If you were a credentialed counselor, you'd know what I'm objecting to. And you'd know why.

Were you to have a bonafide concern and know what you were talking about, you would have stated it outright in answer to my questions.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-