2nd Watson Letter just found!'

[_Gadianton]

Are you seriously claiming that Bill Hamblin was sent a letter on the [i]very day—23 April 1993—that Brent Hall received a fax containing precisely the same content?!

Is it really that hard to believe that people were discussing the first Watson letter and so both Bill and Bro Hall sent in inquiries about the same time and so the secretary simply responded to them in identical fashion on the same day rather than creating individual responses?

[_harmony]

Is it really that hard to believe that people were discussing the first Watson letter and so both Bill and Bro Hall sent in inquiries about the same time and so the secretary simply responded to them in identical fashion on the same day rather than creating individual responses?

Yes.

I'm beginning to think the whole thing is in the same reality as the Golden Plates.

[_KimberlyAnn]

Greg Smith may refer to the folks here as "worried" and "huddled" if he so chooses, but I am neither worried nor huddled. I'm simply amused.

"Hello. I wish to register a complaint. This is not the Second Watson Letter."

Dead Parrot

Someone needs to put the Second Watson Letter/Greg Smith/FARMS/MAD thread fiasco out of its misery with the Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch.

KA

[_harmony]

Greg Smith may refer to the folks here as "worried" and "huddled" if he so chooses, but I am neither worried nor huddled. I'm simply amused.

We're not the ones sitting on the hot seat; he is. He may need to spend more of his time worrying about himself and less about us.

Personally, I find the whole debacle highly entertaining too.

[_Ray A]

On April 23, 1993, he arranged for a clarification letter after a discussion with a FARMS staffer:

The Church emphasizes the doctrinal and historical value of the Book of Mormon, not its geography. While some Latter-day Saints have looked for possible locations and explanations [for Book of Mormon geography] because the New York Hill Cumorah does not readily fit the Book of Mormon description of Cumorah, there are no conclusive connections between the Book of Mormon text and any specific site.[1]

Since the text of this letter was published in the FARMS Review, some critics have charged the FARMS authors with either manipulating the Church into sending the letter, or forging the letter text altogether.

Matt Roper of the Neal A. Maxwell Institute for Religious Scholarship located a copy of the letter with its cover page, and sent FAIR a copy with permission to post it. The cover letter reads as follows:

I thought you would be interested in this FAX from Michael Watson, secretary to the First Presidency. We have been receiving a number of questions from the Oklahoma, Texas area where anti-Mormons are using a letter from Brother Watson to a Bishop where Brother Watson said that the Church supports only one location for Cumorah, and that is the New York location. I talked with him on the phone the other day and told him of the questions that were coming to us. He responded that the First Presidency would like to clear up that Issue and he would FAX me with that clarification.
<br. Thanks

[signed] Brent [Hall]

Book of Mormon geography/Statements/First Presidency Letter.

Would Watson send a letter without FP clearance? (1st or 2nd)

I think the FARMS "staffer" (Hamblin?) did influence the content of the second letter.

[_Nimrod]

Boiled down, I would say it is not a good day to be DCP!

[_Doctor Scratch]

Once again, did Greg Smith claim that this "2nd Watson Letter" (ahem) was found in John Sorenson's files?

If so, then I wonder where John Sorenson fits in in the "chain of custody" of that letter.

Yes, Greg Smith did claim that this copy of the 2nd Watson "Letter" was found in J. Sorenson's files. I would imagine that copies of the fax were made and passed around to various people at FARMS.

If the Hall cover letter is from April 1993, to whom was Hall forwarding a copy of the Carla Ogden Fax (much more likely than it was of a separate letter from Watson to Hamblin of the same date)? To whomever it was being forwarded by Hall, why would that recipient have had an interest in April 1993 but then not volunteered it in the 16 years since?

Excellent question. One has to wonder why the FAIR people haven't produced a scan of this cover letter. To whom was it addressed? Sorenson? Bill Hamblin? Who? Should we assume that Brent Hall just ran off a bunch of copies and distributed them to all the key players at FARMS? If *that* is the case, then some of the scenarios I've sketched out in the past seem a lot more plausible---i.e., that FARMS consists of these guys basically sitting around going, "What can we do to combat the anti-Mormon threat?"

Whereas I had earlier wondered if FARMS had been putting pressure on the Brethren, urging them to alter doctrine, it now looks, instead, like they *tried* to do this but were basically blown off by Watson, who passed this business off to Sis. Ogden. If this is the case, then FARMS really is guilty of manipulating and pumping up the evidence in order to grant more authority to their problematic arguments.

Another thing: the FAIR entry is it stands is full of errors. For one thing, the text of the letter was not (as far as I know) published in the FARMS Review---it was published in the Journal of Book of Mormon Studies. For another, they do not have *any* 2nd "Letter" (or fax, for that matter) from Michael Watson. They have, at best, a fax from Carla Ogden. Their claim that Watson himself "addressed" the earlier letter is patently false.

As for this:

Is it really that hard to believe that people were discussing the first Watson letter and so both Bill and Bro Hall sent in inquiries about the same time and so the secretary simply responded to them in identical fashion on the same day rather than creating individual responses?

We already know, per DCP, that they were not "responded to...in identical fashion." According to Dr. Peterson, Bill Hamblin's "version" was actually from Michael Watson, actually had his signature on it, and was actually printed on FP letterhead. The Brent Hall version, on the other hand, is a fax rather than a letter, is from Carla Ogden rather than Michale Watson, and etc. They are either talking about two totally different documents, or they've been lying about all of this stuff all along.

Would Watson send a letter without FP clearance? (1st or 2nd)

I don't know. The 1st Letter is on FP stationery, and it has his signature on it. The 2nd "Letter" doesn't even have Watson's name on it. All things considered, the 1st Letter has far, far more authority than the 2nd "Letter." This is yet another victory for Chapel Mormonism.

I think the FARMS "staffer" (Hamblin?) did influence the content of the second letter.

You may be right. Here, though, it would be Brent Hall, who claimed to have personally spoken with Bro. Watson, and to have convinced him (i.e., Watson) that he needed to issue some kind of statement in order to reckon with the "anti-Mormons."

[_Nimrod]

The Brent Hall version, on the other hand, is a fax rather than a letter, is from Carla Ogden rather than Michale Watson, and etc. They are either talking about two totally different documents, or they've been lying about all of this stuff all along.

Brent Hall is a lynchpin in this mystery. Obviously Hall knew that the Carla Ogden Fax did not have Watson's name much less his signature on it. Yet in drafting the Brent Hall Cover, Hall referred to the fax being forwarded as "from Michael Watson", and that Watson explained to Hall that the fax was to be the FP 'clearing up of the issue' of the LDS stance on the site of Cumorah.

Dr Scratch is correct in that the 1990 Watson letter (on FP letterhead and signed by Watson) bears much greater indicia of validity as the FP's position than the 1993 Carla Ogden Fax. Perhaps part of the mischief lies at the office of the FP: in light of the 1990 Watson letter, the FP could have plausible deniability either way by having the 1993 'clarification' faxed out by Carla Ogden (lower level employee than Watson) without any signature.

Then, all that the FARMS mischief amounted to was Hamblin claiming the 1993 clarification was from and signed by Watson. (By "all that the FARMS mischief amount to" I am not trying to denigrate its significance, except to point out that such may have been the act of a junior partner to the FP's initial equivocation.)

[_Rollo Tomasi]

Greg Smith just posted on MAD that he has received Watson 2nd letter (http://www.mormonapologetics.org/topic/46468-in-need-of-convincing-lds-scholarship/page__view__findpost__p__1208771720), which in turn gives a link to FAIRwiki for an uploaded scan of the letter.

I stand all amazed! All these years DCP and his ilk have 'cried wolf' about a so-called 2nd Watson letter, and it turned out to be bogus. DCP will never be able to remove all 'the egg on his face' from this latest apologist boner. What a tool ....

[_SoHo]

Who is Carla Ogden?

Sometimes I have my assistant send things for me - so the things bear her name, but they are from me. Almost never, however, would there not be an indication that it was intended from me.