Washington Post: Mormon Church has misled members on finance

[_karl61]

Glenn and Tom from the Infants on Thrones podcast interviewed Lars Nielsen. It’s up now for people to listen to.

[_Kishkumen]

In regards to the question of members’ expectations regarding the use of their tithing, my understanding is that the expectation that it be used for more charitable purposes is a dissident/ex-Mormon sentiment. City Creek definitely focused discontent of this kind, but I think most members have trusted that the LDS Church uses their tithes for the purposes that God has charged the leaders with.

It is when people start to question the Church that the purpose of tithing becomes more of a concern. So long as the members believe it is God’s money, sent to his appointed leaders, it is only a matter of personal sacrifice out of faith.

[_Fence Sitter]

In regards to the question of members’ expectations regarding the use of their tithing, my understanding is that the expectation that it be used for more charitable purposes is a dissident/ex-Mormon sentiment. City Creek definitely focused discontent of this kind, but I think most members have trusted that the LDS Church uses their tithes for the purposes that God has charged the leaders with.

It is when people start to question the Church that the purpose of tithing becomes more of a concern. So long as the members believe it is God’s money, sent to his appointed leaders, it is only a matter of personal sacrifice out of faith.

I don't disagree with this Kiskumen but my response to members who would express such trust is to point out that the Church isn't doing anything with the money expect making more or it, and are they comfortable with a God whose use of money is to make more?

At what point do they have "sufficient for their needs"?

[_Mormonicious]

I'm a Saving for Mormon Jebus' return even though I don't believe in Mormon Jebus or How to Become a 501(c)3 entity

https://www.501c3.org/what-is-a-501c3/

Private foundation. A private foundation is often referred to as a non-operating foundation, as they typically do not have active programs. They are not required to be publicly supported, so revenue may come from a relatively small number of donors, even single individuals or families. Private foundations are usually thought of as nonprofits which support the work of public charities through grants, though that is not always the case. Donations to private foundations can be tax deductible to the individual donor up to 30% of the donor’s income. Governance of a private foundation can be much more closely held than in a public charity. A family foundation is an example of a private foundation.

https://www.irs.gov/charities-non-profi ... -exemption

Remember when asked what the Purpose of the Entity is, just put Hording Money for when Mormon Jebus returns.

[_Dr Moore]

He presents the case with greater maturity and logic on the infants podcast.

Notably at the end, he says that his parents — current missionaries — were contacted by the church ahead of time to see if they would pressure the sons to contain the story.

So, evidently this means the story was well known to church officials in advance. How far in advance? Enough to plant a few seeds of impact tempering by apologists?

[_Gadianton]

Thanks to everyone for an entertaining thread. So many good comments.

Whether this was the ideal way to leak the news or not, I still think it's good that it happened. Comparing to Walmart is interesting. Left unchecked, the Church will put Walmart and all the big tech companies in their rear-view mirror in the coming decades, and the Church will basically be an exercise in privatized government. It's not just tithing, but many wealthy members leave huge portions of their estate to the Church. It's kind of a fad.

I assume as has been stated the Church has well-paid consultants that know what they're doing. That doesn't necessarily mean they have nothing to fear. Risk management is part of any investment strategy, and the gains for cheating might well be justified.

If the Church really has invented a whole new game for tax law and they haven't done anything worth it for the government to try and punish, then other big players will take note, an era of corporate espionage will be under way to figure out how its done, and charity as cover for unchecked profiteering will be a new best practice to help the super-rich get super-super rich.

Either that, or the rules will need to tighten up and eventually the game will fizzle out.

[Guest]

Thanks to everyone for an entertaining thread. So many good comments.

Whether this was the ideal way to leak the news or not, I still think it's good that it happened. Comparing to Walmart is interesting. Left unchecked, the Church will put Walmart and all the big tech companies in their rear-view mirror in the coming decades, and the Church will basically be an exercise in privatized government. It's not just tithing, but many wealthy members leave huge portions of their estate to the Church. It's kind of a fad.

I assume as has been stated the Church has well-paid consultants that know what they're doing. That doesn't necessarily mean they have nothing to fear. Risk management is part of any investment strategy, and the gains for cheating might well be justified.

If the Church really has invented a whole new game for tax law and they haven't done anything worth it for the government to try and punish, then other big players will take note, an era of corporate espionage will be under way to figure out how its done, and charity as cover for unchecked profiteering will be a new best practice to help the super-rich get super-super rich.

Either that, or the rules will need to tighten up and eventually the game will fizzle out.

Just remember, Enron had the best team of accountants, tax professionals and attorneys money could buy. In the end, it didn’t amount to squat.

Saving the money for when Jesus comes back?

I know a second coming is part of Christian eschatology, but that explanation sounds like it's coming from Scientology.

Seriously, it sounds about like Scientology saying, "well, yes, we have this one hundred billion dollars sitting in a secret reserve. and, no, we haven't actually used any of this money for charitable purposes like we promised. But, you got to understand, this money is going to be needed and used for when Xenu returns."

[_Gadianton]

Great point, Stake President.

...On the other hand, I don't get the feeling the Church has a lot of in-house expertise. Back in the day, a colleague and I were having a discussion about consulting, and he made a point that has always stuck with me: only farm out the easy stuff that you know how to do.

It's very possible that despite the number of suits and salaries involved, that the right incentives were not available to provide sound advice. Rather, say what the customer wants to hear. If this is the case, then an Enron scenario might be on the table.

[_Kishkumen]

It is my understanding that the Church employs talented investment professionals at Ensign Peak.

[_Mormonicious]

It is my understanding that the Church employs talented investment professionals at Ensign Peak.

Correct. Since one of the duties of Ensign Peak is to manage the Retirement fund of Mormon Employees, they are required by law to have certified and licensed financial planners and investors.