Torches at High Noon: A Fog Machine, Power Lines, An Angry Extra and Brigham Young’s Electric Boogaloo

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Re: Torches at High Noon: A Fog Machine, Power Lines, An Angry Extra and Brigham Young’s Electric Boogaloo

Post by Everybody Wang Chung »

drumdude wrote:
Tue Feb 03, 2026 9:19 pm
“DCP” wrote:An academic with whom I’m acquainted who is deeply critical of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, formerly active in the Church and now, sadly, quite alienated from it but, on many occasions, far more balanced, fair, intelligent, and lucid than those who surround him where he posts, has raised an interesting objection to Becoming Brigham. I know his identity in real life, but I’ll call him Alex (sic kishkumen):

Alex is inclined to fault Becoming Brigham as an instance of “hero worship” and a manifestation of the “cult of personality” that he regards as a negative characteristic of the culture of the Church. He writes, he observes, about such historical figures as Julius Caesar and Constantine, but he feels no need to defend them as honest, or nice, or good. He has nothing invested in them. He simply follows where the historical evidence leads.

I will grant that there are sometimes elements of undue hero worship in the Church (as elsewhere). While I’m not especially offended by them, I also don’t advocate such attitudes. Still, I do believe that there are real heroes, in the Church and beyond it.

But I think that, in this regard, Alex seriously misconceives what we’re doing with Becoming Brigham and what we did with Six Days in August. These are not ventures in “hero worship.” But they are attempts to tell an accurate story, to paint an accurate portrait as we see it. And to correct inaccurate perceptions where they occur.

Why does this matter? Because Brigham Young (and Joseph Smith and the Witnesses to the Book of Mormon) occupy a distinctly different place in Latter-day Saint historical self-understanding than Julius Caesar, Constantine, Napoleon, and Attila the Hun occupy in historical understanding more generally. Nobody orients his or her daily personal life according to a conception of Julius Caesar — though, I will confess, some current public figures begin to remind me of Attila the Hun. But the claims of Joseph Smith, the Witnesses, and Brigham Young do have life-orientational implications for those who accept them — and, for that matter, for those who reject them.


Moreover, to put it perhaps another way: Joseph and Brigham and other such pivotal figures in the story of the Restoration aren’t merely historical figures. They are witnesses, the value of whose testimony rests upon their credibility and moral character. Thus, as in a courtroom, defending (or questioning) their credibility and their character makes perfect sense and is actually quite important.

Reading Alex’s objection to Becoming Brigham, I immediately thought of a passage from a letter written by Oliver Cowdery to Phineas Young, on 23 March 1846. Oliver was negotiating his return to the Church, and he had some strong requests, even demands, to make before his rebaptism. During the turbulent and unpleasant time of his departure from the Church, in 1838, some very grave and intemperate accusations had been leveled against him and his character. The accusations were untrue, and he wanted explicit clarification that they were untrue. His reasons are of interest and of relevance here:

I have cherished a hope, and that one of my fondest, that I might leave such a character, as those who might believe in my testimony, after I should be called hence, might do so, not only for the sake of the truth, but might not blush for the private character of the man who bore that testimony. I have been sensitive on this subject, I admit; but I ought to be so—you would be, under the circumstances, had you stood in the presence of John, with our departed Brother Joseph, to receive the Lesser Priesthood—and in the presence of Peter, to receive the Greater, and looked down through time, and witnessed the effects these two must produce,—you would feel what you have never felt, were wicked men conspiring to lessen the effects of your testimony on man, after you should have gone to your long sought rest.

I have nothing invested in arguing for the perfection of Joseph Smith or Brigham Young or the Book of Mormon Witnesses. But a great deal rides for me (and for millions of others) on their credibility and on their having been morally adequate to the stewardships that I believe God assigned to them. Fortunately, I believe the historical evidence to be on my side, and on theirs
I don’t know why Dan can’t just use Kish’s chosen pseudonym.
It’s beyond strange for the Afore to be clutching his pearls. Kish’s critiques of Becoming Brigham have been mild to the point of being polite, if you can even call them critiques. And, lest we forget, Kish was one of the lone survivors who actually enjoyed Six Days in August and gave it a good review. Whatever the Afore is smoking, I’d love to know the brand, because its clearly sending him into an alternate reality.


For the sake of the Afore’s delicate sensibilities, someone should probably stage an intervention before he reads the Deseret News comments from TBMs. If the Afore's fragile ego is this bruised by Kish’s mild praise, the comments from the Becoming Brigham article might actually cause him to spontaneously combust.
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Re: Torches at High Noon: A Fog Machine, Power Lines, An Angry Extra and Brigham Young’s Electric Boogaloo

Post by Doctor Scratch »

What he’s admitting to here is actually quite a bit worse than “hero worship.” He’s basically saying that these films are a carefully crafted whitewash that’s meant to ensure that Joseph Smith and BY’s stories are fundamentally faith-promoting. He openly says that there is too much at stake to do otherwise.

Meanwhile, I found it interesting that, in an effort to prove his sympathy for the CoC, he cites an interaction with an anonymous, disaffected CoC member who refers to the CoC leaders as “apostates.”
"If, while hoping that everybody else will be honest and so forth, I can personally prosper through unethical and immoral acts without being detected and without risk, why should I not?." --Daniel Peterson, 6/4/14
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Re: Torches at High Noon: A Fog Machine, Power Lines, An Angry Extra and Brigham Young’s Electric Boogaloo

Post by Marcus »

Peterson also hasn't explained why his movie director has once again used footage from an old 2017 production in Peterson's current movie:
Tom wrote:
Thu Jan 29, 2026 2:40 am
...The opening 80 seconds of the first Bowdlerizing Brigham episode includes footage from the 2017 documentary Joseph Smith: American Prophet, but that is not made clear...
Why Bowdlerizing Brigham uses footage from a 2017 documentary is unclear, but I assume the Proprietor will address the issue shortly...
Marcus wrote:
Tue Feb 03, 2026 8:14 pm
That happened again??? They used footage from the same documentary in their Witnesses trailer!

The below was posted Tue May 12, 2020 1:28 pm, in the thread titled "A New Trailer Drops for the "Witnesses" Movie":
_Lemmie wrote:
Tue May 12, 2020 6:28 pm
And although the clip is shortened, there is STILL a scene from “Joseph Smith, American prophet,” in the Witness’ film “overview.” (STILL not a trailer.) It is a scene from a film previously worked on and released publicly by Peterson’s current director, among others...
The same director has done all of these films for Peterson, right? Is he still sneaking in old footage from the same old film, and still charging Interpreter for "filming" new stuff? ...
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Re: Torches at High Noon: A Fog Machine, Power Lines, An Angry Extra and Brigham Young’s Electric Boogaloo

Post by Tom »

I should clarify that the link in my previous comment will take readers to the portion of the 2017 documentary used in episode one of Bowdlerizing Brigham.

https://youtu.be/6zdQ3XZ98-c?t=1h20m53s

https://youtu.be/xh_GS3RV2dg?si=UoVS6Sqolylck7a8

It’s curious that the Interpreter Foundation spent several million dollars on films with scenes that depict the death of Joseph Smith, but chose to use scenes from a 2017 documentary for Bowdlerizing Brigham.

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Re: Torches at High Noon: A Fog Machine, Power Lines, An Angry Extra and Brigham Young’s Electric Boogaloo

Post by I Have Questions »

drumdude wrote:
Tue Feb 03, 2026 9:19 pm
“DCP” wrote:But I think that, in this regard, Alex seriously misconceives what we’re doing with Becoming Brigham and what we did with Six Days in August. These are not ventures in “hero worship.” But they are attempts to tell an accurate story, to paint an accurate portrait as we see it. And to correct inaccurate perceptions where they occur.
I don’t know why Dan can’t just use Kish’s chosen pseudonym.
Six Days In August and Becoming Brigham are attempts at telling an accurate story? Did he say that with a straight face? The opening scene of the very first episode of Becoming Brigham portrays the mob having to storm the jail at Carthage in a serious running gun battle. That’s a complete fabrication. The main force protecting the jail had been removed and the very few jailers that remained meekly stood aside. And that’s the opening scene of episode 1 - a fabrication. He concludes
I have nothing invested in arguing for the perfection of Joseph Smith or Brigham Young or the Book of Mormon Witnesses. But a great deal rides for me (and for millions of others) on their credibility and on their having been morally adequate to the stewardships that I believe God assigned to them. Fortunately, I believe the historical evidence to be on my side, and on theirs.
”Morally adequate”…wow! Talk about damning with faint praise. Does anybody believe that he has “nothing invested” in aggrandising Joseph & Brigham after investing millions of other people’s dollars on two box office bombs and now a ridiculously long 40 episode series or powder puff propaganda pieces to try and demonstrate that Joseph and Brigham were “morally adequate”? Folks, you cannot make this up…
Premise 1. Eyewitness testimony is notoriously unreliable.
Premise 2. The best evidence for the Book of Mormon is eyewitness testimony.
Conclusion. Therefore, the best evidence for the Book of Mormon is notoriously unreliable.
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Re: Torches at High Noon: A Fog Machine, Power Lines, An Angry Extra and Brigham Young’s Electric Boogaloo

Post by Shulem »

Tom wrote:
Wed Feb 04, 2026 3:23 am
It’s curious that the Interpreter Foundation spent several million dollars on films with scenes that depict the death of Joseph Smith, but chose to use scenes from a 2017 documentary...

I'm going to chime in again because I'm falling on deaf ears around here.

Apparently, nobody realized that in Carthage Illinois on June 27th (about 4:30 pm) prior to the jail being attacked as shown in the video, the sun would have been about 41 deg above the horizon. This is significantly higher than what's portrayed in the video during the opening scene. Paying attention to detail and using exactness in things that can be measured is important. Otherwise, it's flawed!

Image

You would think Peterson could appreciate using exactness in depicting realism for their show. But this is not the case, obviously.

Image
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Re: Torches at High Noon: A Fog Machine, Power Lines, An Angry Extra and Brigham Young’s Electric Boogaloo

Post by Shulem »

Doctor Scratch wrote:
Sun Feb 23, 2025 11:31 pm
DCP wrote:Shulem is a piece of work. But he's a buffoon, and I don't take him seriously. In fact, I rarely read his posts and almost never open a thread that he's launched.
Quite nasty, no?

Well, this "buffoon" (me) :lol: happened to notice that DCP should not have used the opening scene to represent the date and time in which Smith was shot at Carthage. It was a graphic oversight on his part and everyone needs to know that.

I wonder what "thread" I've launched on this board that Peterson opened and perhaps read? Maybe he would like to come to this board and talk about it? Doctor Scratch, would you enjoy witnessing a discussion between Dan and I?

:D

PS. That was a rhetorical question.
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Re: Torches at High Noon: A Fog Machine, Power Lines, An Angry Extra and Brigham Young’s Electric Boogaloo

Post by Shulem »

DCP wrote:An academic with whom I’m acquainted who is deeply critical of the [The] Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, formerly active in the Church and now, sadly, quite alienated from it but, on many occasions, far more balanced, fair, intelligent, and lucid than those who surround him where he posts...

Gee, when I grow up, I want to be just like Kish!

:lol:

Hi Dan!
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Re: Torches at High Noon: A Fog Machine, Power Lines, An Angry Extra and Brigham Young’s Electric Boogaloo

Post by Marcus »

Shulem wrote:
Wed Feb 04, 2026 4:11 pm
Doctor Scratch wrote:
Sun Feb 23, 2025 11:31 pm
Quite nasty, no?
Well, this "buffoon" (me) :lol: happened to notice that DCP should not have used the opening scene to represent the date and time in which Smith was shot at Carthage. It was a graphic oversight on his part and everyone needs to know that.

I wonder what "thread" I've launched on this board that Peterson opened and perhaps read? Maybe he would like to come to this board and talk about it? Doctor Scratch, would you enjoy witnessing a discussion between Dan and I?

:D

PS. That was a rhetorical question.
Indeed. It's obvious he's read EVERY thread you've launched-- he can't refute your findings so he falls back on pretending he didn't read anything. Like a little kid who squeezes their eyes tight shut, puts their fingers in their ears, and shouts "la-la-la-la-la-la...I can't hear you!!!"

He's fooling no one.
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Re: Torches at High Noon: A Fog Machine, Power Lines, An Angry Extra and Brigham Young’s Electric Boogaloo

Post by Shulem »

Marcus wrote:
Wed Feb 04, 2026 5:34 pm
Indeed. It's obvious he's read EVERY thread you've launched-- he can't refute your findings so he falls back on pretending he didn't read anything. Like a little kid who squeezes their eyes tight shut, puts their fingers in their ears, and shouts "la-la-la-la-la-la...I can't hear you!!!"

He's fooling no one.

:lol:

It's been my sacred pleasure to school Peterson and help him learn what's real and what's fake.

He's my pupil.

8-)
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