Suggestions Please

[_msnobody]

Wade, have you ever considered that many exLDS have a reason to be po'ed at the LDS church and have a valid reason to feel like the LDS church has spiritually raped and deceived them? Please consider for a moment that anger in some cases is a healthy coping mechanism.

What is it that keeps you driving at this? I don't understand your motivation, nor your reasoning. You blow my mind, dude! Does this feed a persecution complex? Is this what you feed on to bolster your testimony? What is it? I surely don't understand. I'm left almost speechless with most of your posts.

[_harmony]

I'm not objecting per se to your hypothetical, Wade. I'm objecting to the whole idea.

If you were a credentialed counselor, you'd know what I'm objecting to. And you'd know why.

Were you to have a bonafide concern and know what you were talking about, you would have stated it outright in answer to my questions.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

Please remember who is the credentialed one, Wade. I'm the one bound by professional ethics which you have obviously dismissed as immaterial. If you knew what those were, we wouldn't be having this conversation. If you were credentialed, you'd know exactly what I'm talking about, and instead of talking about my knowing what I'm talking about, we'd be talking about your proposal to get around the professional ethics you would be aware that you are ignoring... an unethical action in and of itself.

Perhaps you should take a course on ethics in counseling. Not only do you show a complete lack of understanding of how your proposal violates the professional ethics that every counselor is required to know and uphold, but you don't even know what you don't know.

Give it up, man. Go back to school and get the degree you covet. And then you will at least know what you don't know now, and maybe then we can have a conversation about why this is a dumb idea.

[_beastie]

I haven't followed this entire thread, so perhaps this was addressed earlier and I missed it.

Wade, you seem to have concerns about mis-diagnosis and over-medication. While there certainly are cases of mis-diagnosis and over reliance on medication, if you set yourself up as some sort of source of therapy and then suggest to people that they have been mis-diagnosed and are over relying on medication, you would be engaging in immoral behavior that could risk people's lives.

[_Mister Scratch]

Hi Scratch,

I am encouraged by your willing support and enthusiasm.

Let's see how you might handle a hypothetical test case:

Suzi is in her early 30's, single (never married and no kids), return missionary, and has been active in the Church all her life. There have been several traumatic events in her life that have shaken her faith in God, but more so in the Church. Because of her loss of faith, she doesn't feel welcomed or at home in the singles ward she was attending, and even less so in married wards she has tried out on occasion. She is embittered against the Church, and to some degree God, for all the troubles she has been forced to face in her life, as well as the lack of success in realizing her most treasured dream--i.e. marriage.

How would you go about helping this person to heal?

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

I would suggest that she visit RfM, where she would be sure to find lots of people who have experienced much the same feelings she has.

[_wenglund]

Wade, have you ever considered that many exLDS have a reason to be po'ed at the LDS church and have a valid reason to feel like the LDS church has spiritually raped and deceived them? Please consider for a moment that anger in some cases is a healthy coping mechanism.

What is it that keeps you driving at this? I don't understand your motivation, nor your reasoning. You blow my mind, dude! Does this feed a persecution complex? Is this what you feed on to bolster your testimony? What is it? I surely don't understand. I'm left almost speechless with most of your posts.

Yes, I have considered those things. My intent, though, is to help people to find healthy and workable ways of doing something about their perceived victimization. What is so confounding about that?

If you were speaking for yourself above, then may I ask if you are content with remaining an angry victim? Or, would you prefer a better life for yourself, your relations, and those you associate with?

And, while anger is useful in detecting when things are wrong and amiss, it is not, in and of itself, a coping mechanism (healthy or otherwise).

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[_wenglund]

Please remember who is the credentialed one, Wade. I'm the one bound by professional ethics which you have obviously dismissed as immaterial. If you knew what those were, we wouldn't be having this conversation. If you were credentialed, you'd know exactly what I'm talking about, and instead of talking about my knowing what I'm talking about, we'd be talking about your proposal to get around the professional ethics you would be aware that you are ignoring... an unethical action in and of itself.

Perhaps you should take a course on ethics in counseling. Not only do you show a complete lack of understanding of how your proposal violates the professional ethics that every counselor is required to know and uphold, but you don't even know what you don't know.

Give it up, man. Go back to school and get the degree you covet. And then you will at least know what you don't know now, and maybe then we can have a conversation about why this is a dumb idea.

Since you view yourself as in a position to say, and you view me as not knowing even what I don't know, then instead of leveling vague and dismissive charges, it would help if you would point out at least one specific thing in my proposal which comes even close to violating ethics. I promise, I will give it serious consideration. And, if you are correct, then I will either modify my proposal, or abandon it. I certainly do not want to violate any ethics.

In fact, given your "credentials", perhaps you would be a great candidate to test out my methods as a "fringe" member. We can get to the bottom of what has been driving your persistant criticism of the leadership of the Church. In the process, your trained minded can prevent me from stepping over the line of ethics if that ever happens, and you can learn firsthand whether my approach is viable or not. What do you say?

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[_wenglund]

I haven't followed this entire thread, so perhaps this was addressed earlier and I missed it.

Wade, you seem to have concerns about mis-diagnosis and over-medication. While there certainly are cases of mis-diagnosis and over reliance on medication, if you set yourself up as some sort of source of therapy and then suggest to people that they have been mis-diagnosed and are over relying on medication, you would be engaging in immoral behavior that could risk people's lives.

I have no intention of making any sort of suggestion like that. But, I do appreciate your concern.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[_Mister Scratch]

Please remember who is the credentialed one, Wade. I'm the one bound by professional ethics which you have obviously dismissed as immaterial. If you knew what those were, we wouldn't be having this conversation. If you were credentialed, you'd know exactly what I'm talking about, and instead of talking about my knowing what I'm talking about, we'd be talking about your proposal to get around the professional ethics you would be aware that you are ignoring... an unethical action in and of itself.

Perhaps you should take a course on ethics in counseling. Not only do you show a complete lack of understanding of how your proposal violates the professional ethics that every counselor is required to know and uphold, but you don't even know what you don't know.

Give it up, man. Go back to school and get the degree you covet. And then you will at least know what you don't know now, and maybe then we can have a conversation about why this is a dumb idea.

Since you view yourself as in a position to say, and you view me as not knowing even what I don't know, then instead of leveling vague and dismissive charges, it would help if you would point out at least one specific thing in my proposal which comes even close to violating ethics.

How about "practicing without a license." by the way, Wade: I saw over on the fittingly named MADboard where you compared RfM to the KKK. This seems like an unfortunate move on your part. Just think: right when you were on the cusp of launching this "proactive" endeavor of yours, you pull a major boner such as that and put your foot in your mouth. Tsk, tsk, tsk. Now, all someone has to do is cite your post and it's essentially game over for Wade's Mormon Shrink Messageboard.

In fact, given your "credentials", perhaps you would be a great candidate to test out my methods as a "fringe" member. We can get to the bottom of what has been driving your persistant criticism of the leadership of the Church. In the process, your trained minded can prevent me from stepping over the line of ethics if that ever happens, and you can learn firsthand whether my approach is viable or not. What do you say?

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

I say "go for it," at the very least so I can determine whether your approach is laughable or not.

[_wenglund]

I would suggest that she visit RfM, where she would be sure to find lots of people who have experienced much the same feelings she has.

How does that suggestion put the Guiding Principles (which you claim to be a "shining example" of) into action?

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[_Sam Harris]

How about a room where they post photos of themselves curled up in a fetal position, with their blankie, sucking their thumbs.

And as an added bonus, make it so that when you click on the picture it will say "Love me, Love me, Love me"

Gaz, why so out of sorts?

Gaz isn't feeling validated these days, so he lashes out in this manner.