Only one female speaker at General Conference this weekend

[_Chap]

The Bible (and modern LDS scripture) tells me that there were no "female Apostles," period.

Kindly cite the text in the New Testament, or the Book of Mormon (or the Book of Abraham, or whatever), where it says anything like "Behold! No woman shall in any wise be amongst mine apostles: for it is an abomination unto me" only in Greek, or translated Reformed Egyptian or whatever.

Or do you just mean:

As I read them, passages I find in the Bible (and modern LDS scripture) seem to imply that there were no "female Apostles".

I rather think you mean the latter.

[_Lemmie]

I don't give a peanut about how many years you have studied.... Try those kinds of tricks on somebody else. They won't work with me. And I go by what the Bible and the word of God tells me, not by what Google tells me.

Really??

I just did a quick search on the Internet, and found this...

Search Google for "know, meaning",... If you want to go by the dictionary, you might as well do it properly.

A google search yields many useful results.

The "trick" of a solid education is worth many, many peanuts.

[_MsJack]

I don't give a peanut about how many years you have studied this or any other subject, or how many college degrees you have got, or how many books you have read. Don't try to browbeat me with that kind of trash.

Who you gonna trust on whether vaccines cause autism, Jenny McCarthy or your doctor?

A wise choice, saving yourself further embarrassment.

[_MsJack]

“1 I commend to you our sister Phoebe, a deacon of the church in Cenchreae. 2 I ask you to receive her in the Lord in a way worthy of his people and to give her any help she may need from you, for she has been the benefactor of many people, including me.”

What's interesting about Phoebe is that, in addition to being designated a "deacon," the word for "benefactor" there (προστάτις) literally means "woman who presides" (!). It comes from the Greek προΐστημι meaning "to preside over."

It's very unfortunate that so many translations obscured Phoebe's role by mistranslating these words as "servant" and "helper."

I prepared a PDF on Romans 16 some number of years ago, with a Mormon audience in mind, that covers this subject:

https://ldstalk.files.wordpress.com/201 ... entary.pdf

Another interesting bit of evidence about Phoebe:

“A funerary stele from the Mount of Olives in Jerusalem, and dated to the latter half of the fourth century, or possibly even later, reads: ‘Here lies the slave and bride of Christ, Sophia the deacon (hē diakonos), the second Phoebe (hē deutera Phoibē), who fell asleep in peace . . .’ To be referred to as ‘the second Phoebe’ was clearly meant as an honour for the deacon Sophia who was commemorated on the stele.” http://newlife.id.au/equality-and-gende ... ea-part-2/

[_Chap]

Here is Sophia's stele inscription:



From:

New Documents Illustrating Early Christianity, Volume 4
By G. H. R. Horsley, 1987.

[_grindael]

He was certainly called to the same office...

It is this kind of stupidity that abounds in Mormonism. No, he was not, and he could not "make this clear" because he was NOT qualified to be one of the special 12 witnesses that Jesus called. They replaced only one, and that was because Judas betrayed Jesus. What were the qualifications of those who they considered? The New Testament tells us:

21 Therefore it is NECESSARY to choose one of the men who have been with us the whole time the Lord Jesus was living among us, 22 beginning from John’s baptism to the time when Jesus was taken up from us. For one of these must become a witness with us of his resurrection.”

23 So they nominated two men: Joseph called Barsabbas (also known as Justus) and Matthias. 24 Then they prayed, “Lord, you know everyone’s heart. Show us which of these two you have chosen 25 to take over THIS apostolic ministry, which Judas left to go where he belongs.” 26 Then they cast lots, and the lot fell to Matthias; so he was added to the eleven apostles. (Acts Chapter 1)

Paul ABSOLUTELY does not qualify to be one of the 12 special witnesses of Jesus, since he was not one of Jesus' disciples SINCE THE BEGINNING OF HIS MINISTRY. So, was he an "apostle"? Yes. Was he one of the special 12? NO. Ms. Jack gets it right, AGAIN.

In Acts Chapter 10, Peter again declares who is qualified as he is, (to be one of the 12 special witnesses):

We are witnesses of everything he did in the country of the Jews and in Jerusalem. They killed him by hanging him on a cross, 40 but God raised him from the dead on the third day and caused him to be seen. 41 He was not seen by all the people, but by witnesses whom God had already chosen—by us who ate and drank with him after he rose from the dead.

Paul was called to a different "apostolic ministry", one that centered on the Gentiles. He was never called to be one of the original 12 special witnesses to Jesus ministry and resurrection, because he did not qualify and no one could take their place, only in the one instance was that done because of Judas' transgression. There were only going to be 12 special witnesses, there were never going to be any more.

[_grindael]

A wise choice, saving yourself further embarrassment.

The only one who embarrassed himself here is Zero... who is completely ignorant and thinks his quick internet searches can make up for his stupidity.

[_Rino]

I have almost 19 years of studying this particular subject along with degrees in classics and church history...you could just take my word for it and move on?

Ms. Jack has a degree from BYU and spent several years (4? 5?)on a 2 year Masters, so when she speaks, the thinking has been done!!!!

[_zerinus]

I have almost 19 years of studying this particular subject along with degrees in classics and church history...you could just take my word for it and move on?

Ms. Jack has a degree from BYU and spent several years (4? 5?)on a 2 year Masters, so when she speaks, the thinking has been done!!!!

I had already figured—about the "thinking" bit, that is.

[_Lemmie]

What's interesting about Phoebe is that, in addition to being designated a "deacon," the word for "benefactor" there (προστάτις) literally means "woman who presides" (!). It comes from the Greek προΐστημι meaning "to preside over."

It's very unfortunate that so many translations obscured Phoebe's role by mistranslating these words as "servant" and "helper."

I'm really liking that definition of "benefactor." The designation goes right along with your story about the female pastors in China, right?