Little girl has her mic turned off during F&T meeting

[_grindael]

John Dehlin just interviewed her about an hour ago... https://www.Facebook.com/mormonstories/ ... 650264301/

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

Why don't you just admit you're way off base on this issue, and cutting off her mic was wrong?

Have you read my comments? I already said effectively the same thing. The issue at present isn't about her mic being shutoff, it's all the stuff that came afterwards. If you're changing the subject yet again, agreed, I don't think her mic should have been cut. Bad decision. But also not that big of a deal. And we don't know what he, the leader that made the decision to shut her off, was thinking.

As for the content of what the girl said, I'd have to disagree a little. While I agree it was wrong to cut her off, I don't agree that she was merely saying the same stuff the church itself has said. That's obviously not true. First, the church does not promote gay marriages or lesbian relationships of any kind. Period. Second, there is also the issue of context. The church supports sexual relations within a marriage. Have all the graphic raw animal sex you want. That doesn't mean it's ok to discuss such things in public in front of the youth. Time and place. While this girl's words weren't graphic in that sense, the topic she was discussing, the idea of a girl having a romantic relationship with another girl, is extremely controversial and offends a lot of people.

"Mommy, what's a lesbian?"

LOL. "Oh, well a lesbian is a girl that likes to [deleted]" You think some people wouldn't be a wee bit irritated by having this topic brought up in front of their kids? Well, I've got a Facebook feed full of people discussing this whole thing right now, and the TBMs are livid and reacting exactly as I predicted. The church is under assault... lol. They see the church as their safe space and you all are trying to tear it down. You leave the church but won't leave them alone. They aren't happy about it. Actually, they perceive things as being even worse than this. They see you as trying to put ideas into their kids heads and pervert them. It's not just offensive to them, it's openly hostile, an act of war.

Look, you guys can argue with me all you want but it won't change the facts, which are objective, and don't care about your feelings. This incident didn't improve relationships. It's not helping the church to grow in any way. All it has accomplished is to reinforce the persecution complex. A whole bunch of people have been offended, for nothing. This act did not improve things for other closet gay kids in the church. If it had any impact on those kids at all, it probably made things worse. It definitely didn't help though. How could it? You're a gay kid in a TBM household. How does this help you? To see that there was another gay kid who spoke out and got body slammed to the floor in response? Great help.

This whole topic has been beaten to death...

What the “F” is wrong with you?

And how did this come about:

https://mormonandgay.LDS.org/about

Did it just happen in a vacuum, or did it come about because people talked about it inside and outside of chapel doors?

God forbid Mormons are confronted with a topic that's of relevant cultural value. Oh my god. Gasp. They just can't keep erasing the Gays from reality any more... Oh, poor souls.

- Doc

[_Lemmie]

Have you read my comments? ...Well, I've got a Facebook feed full of people discussing this whole thing right now, and the TBMs are livid and reacting exactly as I predicted. The church is under assault...

Water Dog, what is going on?

Everybody in exmo internet is sucking each other off over this thing, meanwhile the TBMs don't give a crap...

So which is it, the TBMs are livid or the TBMs don't give a crap? I'm getting the feeling you are making up whatever story you think will support your current post.

[_Lemmie]

For all we know he had VERY GOOD REASONS for shutting her down, beside just the content of what she had already said.

And another CFR for another one of Water Dog's speculations.

Lemmie, you're kind of an idiot, no offense, but everything you say amounts to "do as I say but not as I do." Until you have both sides of the story there is nothing to criticize this leader for.

You are confused as to who is doing what, no offense! From your post earlier:

And there is also probably more information than meets the eye, like the leadership/ward may have already had a history of certain behaviors with this girl and her family.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=46320&p=1060067&view=show#p1060067

Water Dog to himself: "Remember to accuse others of not having both sides of the story to cover up when I do it."

[_Lemmie]

OMG, look at the mom! She's a bull dyke! Talk about a picture telling a thousand words. And I truly don't mean to be rude, but give me a break. You expect me to believe the mother wasn't behind all this? And by "all this" I mean convincing this little girl she's gay to begin with. It's just too much. Dehlin just took the spectacle to a new level. This arguably adds legitimacy to the November Policy. This now very much looks like a case of child abuse at the hands of a crazy parent. And by that i mean this is how TBMs will surely interpret it.

Cut the act, sock puppet. I don't believe those are not your words and interpretations. You already described the little girl's testimony in this disgusting fashion:

Have all the graphic raw animal sex you want. That doesn't mean it's ok to discuss such things in public in front of the youth...

LOL. "Oh, well a lesbian is a girl that likes to [deleted]" You think some people wouldn't be a wee bit irritated by having this topic brought up in front of their kids?

Your words are sickening, but you invoke a Schryver tone quite well.

[_Lemmie]

As for the suicide crisis, CFR! No evidence has been produced to show there is a gay-related suicide crisis in Utah. A lot of accusations to that effect, no concrete data to substantiate the claim. Any data provided is correlational at best.

What is the direct empirical evidence?

1.National studies show that LGBTQ teens are at a much higher risk of suicide attempts.1

2.Family Acceptance Project (FAP) has done some excellent research showing that there is an exponential risk of suicide for LGBTQ teens who come from families that show rejecting behaviors. They even studied what those rejecting behaviors are, and anyone familiar with the Mormon community would recognize those rejecting behaviors as being very common in our communities. Rejecting behaviors by parents are even reinforced by local church leaders and Mormon culture (refer to FAP information). It is also important to note that the risk of suicide remains higher well into adulthood. These youth also have exponentially higher rates of drug/alcohol use, depression, and HIV infection compared to youth raised in homes that don’t show these rejecting behaviors.2

3.Schools with explicit anti-homophobia interventions such as gay-straight alliances (GSAs) may reduce the odds of suicidal thoughts and attempts among LGBTQ students.3

4.Suicide is the number one cause of death of all Utah youth; this is not the case nationally. More alarming, the teen suicide rate in Utah has doubled since 2011.4

5.Teen suicide is lower when there is an LGBTQ supportive environment.5

Unfortunately, isolation (a risk factor for suicide) is more prevalent among LGBTQ people. For example, one study shows that lesbian, gay and bisexual Australians are twice as likely as heterosexual Australians to have no contact with family or no family to rely on for serious problems (11.8% v. 5.9%).6

There is a clear body of research showing that there is an elevated risk of suicide among LGBTQ teens nationally. There is also a clear body of research showing what the major risk factors are for suicide and other poor outcomes for LGBTQ youth. There is no reason to believe that the LDS community is immune to this. Based on this alone, we do need to consider that we have a suicide problem in our community. Analysis of the data suggests that the problem is worse in LDS communities than the national average. The youth suicide rate in Utah is the first statistic that implies this. Although the suicide rate is elevated throughout the intermountain west,7 no other states have seen the doubling in the teen suicides that Utah has had in the past 4 years. Why is youth suicide in Utah so much higher than the national average? Since LGBTQ issues may be a large factor impacting teen suicides, it would be irresponsible not to address these issues locally, especially when the suicide problem is so acute in Utah, where the highest concentration of Mormons live. Meanwhile, studies have shown us the risk factors for suicide, but protective factors have not been studied as extensively or rigorously as risk factors.

http://rationalfaiths.com/the-lgbtq-mor ... n-suicide/

(The footnotes are not hyperlinked in the above excerpt, but they are in the link.)
Here's my CFR. Your requested, multiple CFRs are forthcoming, I assume.

Right, so again, a bunch of correlational gobbledygook from people who couldn't pass an undergrad-level exam on probability theory. Try harder.

That's a lot of nonsensical blustering, did you not understand what you read? Because if you did, who exactly do you want to try harder? The CDC? The authors of The National Longitudinal Study of Adolescent Health ? The authors published in The American Journal of Public Health? The editors of The Journal of Suicide and Life-Threatening Behavior?

[_Lemmie]

Still waiting for a CFR from WS/WD for this stereotypical nonsense:

...the same folks who get so worked up about the LDS church and gays are going out of their way to embrace the spread of islam around the world.

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

Well, if it makes WS, er, WD feel any better I think Islam is a horsecrap system and creates a perfect avenue for the true believers to commit all sorts of horrific crimes. Then again I'm not a huge fan of religion; it's just that Islam is pretty much quantifiably the shittiest one right now.

If I were an ex-Muslim I'd probably be doing the same thing on Islamic forums as I do here which is talk about things Islam within a pragmatic and socially progressive POV.

- Doc

[_Lemmie]

here we go again... lol

Translate: "I'll try to avoid the calls for references with a non-answer. Lol."

I'm still pretty curious about this one:

Her parents are rainbow flag waiving activists.

CFR

[_Sanctorian]

I'm on mobile so it will be a nightmare to go back and pull out all the quotes from waterdog to make my point, but it seems to me his pattern of attacking and criticizing this girl and her mom show a clear homophobic undertone. Words like "leftist", "dyke", "[deleted]", and his general tone towards the girl leave me to believe he's simply a homophobe and believes homosexuality is a gross part of society.

I get it. But don't use the church to hide behind your own personal beliefs on homosexuality. You want to talk about this girl and her family waiving the rainbow flag as a political stunt. Meanwhile, you can't be a man and clearly state what's really bugging you which is the homosexuality.