Maksutov wrote:If you want to look at it that way, I am anti-Mormonism and pro-Mormon. Mormonism is a social disease. Mormons are the victims of it. They need to be treated for their disease to cure them of it. I do my part.
Please pardon me, but I've heard THAT one before. It's amazing how many people say that they are 'anti-MormonISM,' but not 'anti-Mormon,' and then start writing things like: "Mormons are liars" or "Mormons are greedy," or "Mormons are mind-numbed robots who blindly follow whatever their leaders tell them" or "Mormons can't get their doctrines straight; every one of them has a different idea about what it is." (those last two are quite often written by the same person, sometimes within the same post).
I am not, of course, accusing YOU of being one of those. Please excuse me. I've been over on CARM for years and the atmosphere over there may have poisoned my viewpoint and made me overly cynical and suspicious.
Cet animal est très méchant, Quand on l'attaque il se défend.
Here are six onties of silver, and all these will I give thee if thou wilt deny the Explanations of Facsimile No. 3 which Joseph Smith published in the Times & Seasons.
Can you do that?
Will you do that?
Probably not. I don't know enough to give the sort of completely informed and scholarly reply that would be required. Thank you, though, for giving me something new to research. ;)
It's disappointing that you lack fundamental and basic knowledge about Facsimile No. 3. Calling a god a slave is a very serious matter, is it not?
Thanks, FS, but there is a pretty significant difference between trolling and lack of self awareness (or, less generously, cluelessness). I don’t see any anything yet in Nadnia’s posts that points definitively one way or another. The only effect of troll piling is to shut down conversation and chase folks away. When folks ask from time to time why Mormons don’t participate here, you’re seeing the answer right in this thread.
“The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists.”
― Hannah Arendt, The Origins of Totalitarianism, 1951
Niadna wrote:Now why on earth would I want to do that? I'm not knocking on doors and passing out 'The Plan of Salvation" pamphlets here.
Listen, baby -- you're advertising yourself as one who has faith & hope. Faith and hope in what? Now you pick your pretty little legs up and hop over to the Jesus thread and bear your testimony. Your Father in Heaven will be displeased if you don't.
Nandia, so you were a teacher. When a student engaged in inappropriate behavior in class, did you label her a “troublemaker” and treat her as a troublemaker going forward it did you address the behavior?
“The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists.”
― Hannah Arendt, The Origins of Totalitarianism, 1951
Res Ipsa wrote:Thanks, FS, but there is a pretty significant difference between trolling and lack of self awareness (or, less generously, cluelessness). I don’t see any anything yet in Nadnia’s posts that points definitively one way or another. The only effect of troll piling is to shut down conversation and chase folks away. When folks ask from time to time why Mormons don’t participate here, you’re seeing the answer right in this thread.
I also have not seen anything that would suggest to me she is a troll. I am simply pointing out the similarities between how she wants to classify people in neat categories to being so classified herself by others. So Mak and Porter putting her in a troll category is just like her own system of judging others. I don't happen to agree with them that she is, but I also disagree that the system she has outlined has any useful application other than being able to reject what someone says simply by placing them in a certain category. Isn't that exactly what calling her a troll is doing?
For me, the bottom line is she has started an interesting thread that has generated a lot of posts. I hope she continues to do so.
"Any over-ritualized religion since the dawn of time can make its priests say yes, we know, it is rotten, and hard luck, but just do as we say, keep at the ritual, stick it out, give us your money and you'll end up with the angels in heaven for evermore."
“The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists.”
― Hannah Arendt, The Origins of Totalitarianism, 1951
Niadna wrote:Now why on earth would I want to do that? I'm not knocking on doors and passing out 'The Plan of Salvation" pamphlets here.
Listen, baby -- you're advertising yourself as one who has faith & hope.
Care to show me the post in which I did any such thing?
Shulem wrote: Faith and hope in what? Now you pick your pretty little legs up and hop over to the Jesus thread and bear your testimony. Your Father in Heaven will be displeased if you don't.
Uh huh. but thank you for calling my legs both little and pretty.
Cet animal est très méchant, Quand on l'attaque il se défend.
Res Ipsa wrote:Nandia, so you were a teacher. When a student engaged in inappropriate behavior in class, did you label her a “troublemaker” and treat her as a troublemaker going forward it did you address the behavior?
Indeed...I addressed the behavior (though I was actually pretty lousy at classroom management). And part of addressing that behavior is classifying the BEHAVIOR.
Which, as I have mentioned more than once, is what I do when classifying 'critic' 'anti' and 'extreme anti'. I have, more than once, stated rather clearly that I can't judge the thoughts and motives of the writers, only that which is written.
Cet animal est très méchant, Quand on l'attaque il se défend.
Maksutov wrote:If you want to look at it that way, I am anti-Mormonism and pro-Mormon. Mormonism is a social disease. Mormons are the victims of it. They need to be treated for their disease to cure them of it. I do my part.
Please pardon me, but I've heard THAT one before. It's amazing how many people say that they are 'anti-MormonISM,' but not 'anti-Mormon,' and then start writing things like: "Mormons are liars" or "Mormons are greedy," or "Mormons are mind-numbed robots who blindly follow whatever their leaders tell them" or "Mormons can't get their doctrines straight; every one of them has a different idea about what it is." (those last two are quite often written by the same person, sometimes within the same post).
I am not, of course, accusing YOU of being one of those. Please excuse me. I've been over on CARM for years and the atmosphere over there may have poisoned my viewpoint and made me overly cynical and suspicious.
Damnit. I'm starting to like this person.
Mormons are people. People ARE liars, greedy, mind numbed robots to a surprising degree, Mormon or not. But these things don't add up to a very clear picture ideologically. It doesn't vindicate anyone or anything, just shows that we know little about ourselves and how we got this way. But at least that is the beginning of a real foundation.
