I will try not to offend!

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_marg

Re: Understanding Your Point

Post by _marg »

JAK wrote:

Well marg,

Your post and that of Harmony’s are interesting. Since there appears to be no way to know if a post is sarcastic or “cartoon,” responding to one is a stupid exercise.


Very true JAK. Bednar, Tommy and Packer aren't trying to misrepresent the "real" life people, or poke fun at them but are attempting to represent them in attitude and essentially poke some fun at Mormon beliefs. It is difficult to pick up on the subtle sarcasm and just what the sarcasm is about. I actually know Bednar, and his sense of humor quite well from a previous MB. Sometimes one gets to know a "voice" on message boards and I know his and so it's easy for me since I know where he truly stands. Similarly you have a distinctive "voice" which I probably could also pick up on, if you were to write on a message board without revealing "JAK".

And from these comments to me, I shall refrain from any further posts on this forum. The liars and those who speak with honesty can’t be distinguished by someone just reading the screen.


I understand your point. The problem is that much of religion is nonsense. Often times I read or hear an individual express their religious beliefs and it seems so wacky that I have a hard time appreciating they are serious. The same people on this board, who might think there are 3 levels of heaven, with God in one level, and Jesus in a lower level, and no God in the 3rd bottom level ...would think that Bednar in this thread is off his rocker if he truly believes there is skiing on Kolob.

And for an explanation of Kolob see http://www.answers.com/Kolob?gwp=11&ver ... 4&method=3


I read your links and think I can make no useful contribution here.



JAK, perhaps in a thread such as this, but in any thread which addresses concepts of logic you have much to offer. I know of no one in all my 6 years or so on message boards, who is as clear thinking and logical as you, who has the patience you do, and who can engage and challenge believers without attacking them personally.
_David A. Bednar
_Emeritus
Posts: 134
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2007 2:28 pm

Post by _David A. Bednar »

Tommy wrote:My Dear Elder,

You wrote,
Any advice? See you soon at the quorum of the 15 meeting in the temple.

As always, your brother in the harness, Elder David A. Bednar


The door to my office is always open for the outpouring of godly advice. And most certainly open for a fellow special witness. A number of years ago a young man came into my office, distraught from the wages of sin bearing down upon him. To add to his burdens, he had been offended. By the bishop no less. There had been some disputes concerning his process of repentence. I asked him what was the matter. He said that during the many talks he had with the bishop, the bishop over time was confusing details about his transgressions. For instance, he had told the bishop about a certain habit he'd engaged in two times the previous week. But during the next meeting, the Bishop asked about the young man's struggle in repentence for the habit he'd engaged in four times in the prior week. The young man grew anxious, "But Bishop, I only did it twice!"

Now this is interesting situation, you see. On the one hand, we have a sinful youth who is under the influence of the adversary claiming that a certain event happened twice. And in the other hand, I mean, on the other hand, we have a man ordained by God, given the power of discernment, saying that the same event happened four times. Now Elder, how many times did this event happen?

If your watch says it's tuesday, and President Hinckley says it's thursday, what day is it?

And if a senior apostle spells "apostasy" as "apostacy", how is the word spelled?

Unquestioning obedience is the first law of heaven by dear brother. And the tests of this obedience come in many ways.



My dear brother, Tommy. I will be ever grateful for your kind words to me and your never-ending support and fellowship. I would enjoy visiting with you in your office and discussing the eternal value of unquestioning obedience.

I want to share with you an interesting story from one of my ancestor's diaries. I think it will add illuminating insight into the principle you are attempting to teach our brothers and sisters here on this fine board.

When my great, great grandfather was called on his mission to England, he and many others who were called at the same time were together, in the old Bowery, to be set apart as missionaries, before they left their dear wives and young children to serve at Brother Brigham's pleasure. Brother Heber and Brother Brigham were there to set them apart and to teach them the very principle you have so patiently taught us here.

Brother Heber held up a white sheet of paper and asked each young man, one at a time, whether they would say the paper was black, if he told them it was. Each one in the row said "Yes, Brother Heber, even if it is white, but you tell us it is black, we will say it is black." My ancestor was at the end of the row. When he was asked the same question, he said: "Hell, no Brother Heber, I would never tell you that a white sheet of paper is black, if indeed it was white. I would rather die first."

Brother Brigham joined in, castigating the other brothers for their dishonesty and praising my great, great grandfather. He left that meeting believing that he understood the gospel and that the truth was important above all else. Sadly to say, he was very confused about the principles of the gospel and especially with the great, eternal moral relativity principle taught to the Saints by Brother Joseph and carried on with Brother Brigham.

When he was later in life charged with violation of the Morrill Act, he still believed that the truth and obeying the law was most important above all else. He took the pledge, thus avoiding prison time unlike the rest of his brethren.

It wasn't until the next Sunday, when he was released from his calling and disparaged in the newspapers, that he came to understand that it is better to follow the Prophets. He learned, finally, that day, that black can indeed be white, and white can indeed be black, if the Prophets so determine.

In reading that diary, I felt the witness of the spirit validating this truth to my soul. I am so grateful to the Lord that he would allow me to serve in such a high position in the Church, despite how long it took some of my ancestors to learn this great principle. And I hope our brothers and sisters can learn it as well, before they too lose their hometeaching calling and standing in their communities.

I love you all, my dear brothers and sisters, and hope that our message, that truth is indeed relative, that what our leaders ask you to do and believe is the truth for you. It is the safe way. Hold fast to that which is true!

As always, your brother in the celestial harness,

Elder David A. Bednar
_David A. Bednar
_Emeritus
Posts: 134
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2007 2:28 pm

Re: I will try not to offend!

Post by _David A. Bednar »

desert_vulture wrote:
David A. Bednar wrote:Say hello to your wife from elder David A. Bednar. By the way, we have narrowed down your location. We will soon find you, be assured. Until then, all the best to you and your loved ones. The harnessed and least of the 15 of the quorum of the 12.

Thanks for the interest. Oh, and along that vein, sorry I told you that you "had you head squarely up your ass" back early-on in the thread. You have proved to me that you are very compassionate, especially trying to seek me out to hold a court of love for me. It's a gospel of love, isn't it? That's what I thought. Now, don't screw it up in Conference and become the next Czar of Internet Porn Control. Don't screw the pooch David, ok? Now that we've built some confidence between us, I just wanted to let you know that you can ease up a little on the whole orthodoxy thing. Follow Tommy boy's lead, talk about little old ladies that you helped as a kid. That will get you some mileage, until you take the reins someday. And don't let Tommy boy push brother Gordon out the door so fast. I know he's almost 97, and everyone's waiting around for his maker to take him to the other side, but he is the mouthpiece dammit! Leave him in there. Don't shove him out the door, or everyone will know its a coup. We've had Benson, McKay and other prophets reach a vegetable state, and still be able to lead the church. So all is well in Zion, brutha, peace..out.

-DV


My dear deseret_vulture:

Just to let you know, the "Court of Love" is still a court of love, though it is no longer called that, on advice of our great Church law firm, Kirton and McConkie. I believe that they thought the "counterfeit judges," if we were ever to go to trial over disciplinary proceedings, might not fully understand how a church trial could be a court of love. That is their loss, but we have to play along with these counterfeits, as we always have, since the 1800s.

I do hope that you found time to enjoy the powerful and sweet spirit that was with us in Conference. Especially, I do hope that you enjoyed my "Parable of the Pickle." You should try canning your own pickles, and getting your hands in the salt brine, as it were. There is no better way to learn the principles of the gospel than to get your own hands in the brine.

We haven't heard from you in a while, but hope all is well with your family. Keep enjoying your GD teaching assignment, while you have the chance. Remember, the time is nigh at hand and the field is ready for harvest.

Your dear brother, one of the 15 of the quorum of the 12, yea, even Elder David A. Bednar.
_David A. Bednar
_Emeritus
Posts: 134
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2007 2:28 pm

Post by _David A. Bednar »

KimberlyAnn wrote:Elder Bednar, I think you're the cutest of all the apostles, barring that hunky Uchtdorf. His silky silver hair just drives me wild.

You look a bit tense. Perhaps your chubby secretary could loosen you up a little and burn a few calories at the same time? It would be an act of service for both of you.

Kimberly Ann


To my dear and sweet sister, KimberlyAnn,

I as always appreciate the fine support of my fellow brothers and sisters. I should mention here that Elder Uchtdorf's secretary has fallen ill suddenly. He is looking for a nice secretary, one with the spirit and willingness to obey. By any chance, are you looking for a job?

Clearly, you have typing skills. All we ask is that you start wearing clothes that match the image necessary for one of the Apostle's secretaries. If you were you to cover your shoulders and dress modestly, I think you would be a "shoe-in" for the job. What do you think?

Of course, if that position has already been filled before you have a chance to groom your resume, then perhaps you might be interested in coming to work for me? I will be soon passing on my secretary to the next apostle. Sadly, some of our Quorum brethren are soon to leave their mortal coils and move on to their next estate. Many positions are soon to be open here in the Quorum.

There is also, aside from the generous salary and benefits, a panty hose allowance. Think about it! You would be a perfect addition to our close-knit family here in the COB.

Anticipating your acceptance, with purity of heart and mind, your brother in the harness,

Elder David A. Bednar
_David A. Bednar
_Emeritus
Posts: 134
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2007 2:28 pm

Post by _David A. Bednar »

Gazelam wrote:Not all truths are of equal importance.


My dear brother Gazelam:

So clearly you understand the gospel principle, that what may be true in one situation, may not be true in another, and its corollary principle, that some truths are simply not important in the eternal scheme of things.

Bless you brother, for your diligent scripture study. As you well understand, there is no need to think logically or to philosophise upon the eternal truths, when you can just go to the plain and precious parts of the scriptures and expound on them.

Keep up the good work, my dear brother, and great shall be your reward in the kingdom to come.

Your fellow brother in the harness, yea, even with the gospel blinders, Elder David A. Bednar
_David A. Bednar
_Emeritus
Posts: 134
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2007 2:28 pm

Post by _David A. Bednar »

JAK wrote:
Tommy wrote:My Dear Elder,

You wrote,
Any advice? See you soon at the quorum of the 15 meeting in the temple.

As always, your brother in the harness, Elder David A. Bednar


The door to my office is always open for the outpouring of godly advice. And most certainly open for a fellow special witness. A number of years ago a young man came into my office, distraught from the wages of sin bearing down upon him. To add to his burdens, he had been offended. By the bishop no less. There had been some disputes concerning his process of repentence. I asked him what was the matter. He said that during the many talks he had with the bishop, the bishop over time was confusing details about his transgressions. For instance, he had told the bishop about a certain habit he'd engaged in two times the previous week. But during the next meeting, the Bishop asked about the young man's struggle in repentence for the habit he'd engaged in four times in the prior week. The young man grew anxious, "But Bishop, I only did it twice!"

Now this is interesting situation, you see. On the one hand, we have a sinful youth who is under the influence of the adversary claiming that a certain event happened twice. And in the other hand, I mean, on the other hand, we have a man ordained by God, given the power of discernment, saying that the same event happened four times. Now Elder, how many times did this event happen?

If your watch says it's tuesday, and President Hinckley says it's thursday, what day is it?

And if a senior apostle spells "apostasy" as "apostacy", how is the word spelled?

Unquestioning obedience is the first law of heaven by dear brother. And the tests of this obedience come in many ways.


Tommy states:
If your watch says it's tuesday, and President Hinckley says it's thursday, what day is it?

And if a senior apostle spells "apostasy" as "apostacy", how is the word spelled?

Unquestioning obedience is the first law of heaven by dear brother. And the tests of this obedience come in many ways.


Either “your watch” is wrong or “President Hinckley” is wrong.

“Unquestioning” anything is ignorance, stupidity or both. Honest, transparent inquiry gives access to valid conclusions.

Religious dogma is a primary path to ignorance and masquerades as instruction.

Days of the week are capitalized and the spelling of the word is apostasy.

If your picture reflects your age, you appear to have escaped the most elementary of education.


JAK


My dear brother/sister(?) JAK

There is nothing this board needs more than another spelling policeman. Please stay around. Especially, could you perhaps work with our dear brother Gazelam, privately. He seems somewhere to have missed a few spelling lessons along the way. He is being especially groomed for Apostleship, but with all the spelling errors, I fear he may not "cut the mustard."

The 15 brethren of the Quorum of the 12 would be ever so grateful for your kind attention to this matter, before it gets out of hand. Perhaps you could even take over Brother Dr. Shades' job and give him some more time to catch all the bad words showing up in the terrestial forum. What do you think, Brother JAK? We would hate to lose your fine abilities and wisdom, here, where they are so sorely needed.

Please, ponder and pray over this calling. Your brother, Elder David A. (in the harness) Bednar
_David A. Bednar
_Emeritus
Posts: 134
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2007 2:28 pm

Re: Understanding Your Point

Post by _David A. Bednar »

marg wrote:
JAK wrote:

Well marg,

Your post and that of Harmony’s are interesting. Since there appears to be no way to know if a post is sarcastic or “cartoon,” responding to one is a stupid exercise.


Very true JAK. Bednar, Tommy and Packer aren't trying to misrepresent the "real" life people, or poke fun at them but are attempting to represent them in attitude and essentially poke some fun at Mormon beliefs. It is difficult to pick up on the subtle sarcasm and just what the sarcasm is about. I actually know Bednar, and his sense of humor quite well from a previous MB. Sometimes one gets to know a "voice" on message boards and I know his and so it's easy for me since I know where he truly stands. Similarly you have a distinctive "voice" which I probably could also pick up on, if you were to write on a message board without revealing "JAK".

And from these comments to me, I shall refrain from any further posts on this forum. The liars and those who speak with honesty can’t be distinguished by someone just reading the screen.


I understand your point. The problem is that much of religion is nonsense. Often times I read or hear an individual express their religious beliefs and it seems so wacky that I have a hard time appreciating they are serious. The same people on this board, who might think there are 3 levels of heaven, with God in one level, and Jesus in a lower level, and no God in the 3rd bottom level ...would think that Bednar in this thread is off his rocker if he truly believes there is skiing on Kolob.

And for an explanation of Kolob see http://www.answers.com/Kolob?gwp=11&ver ... 4&method=3


I read your links and think I can make no useful contribution here.



JAK, perhaps in a thread such as this, but in any thread which addresses concepts of logic you have much to offer. I know of no one in all my 6 years or so on message boards, who is as clear thinking and logical as you, who has the patience you do, and who can engage and challenge believers without attacking them personally.


To my dear forever-a thorn-in-our-sides-sisters, Harmony (I just love that name) and Marg,

Thank you for assisting JAK in acquainting him to this board. It really is a daunting task getting to know everyone here. That's for sure!

I am a little troubled by your reference to religion, Marg, as nonsense. Now, that is nonsense! If President McKay can believe that his favorite horse will be celestialised, then certainly it is not much more of a stretch to consider celestial skiing on Kolob, now is it? It sure seems logical to me.

Your constant disparaging of religion and its sure and strong (not to mention logical, as well) underpinnings is disheartening. Please come down to the office and have a talk with me. I think I can even arrange a meeting with some of the other Apostles in the building. Tommy, I am sure would love to sit in. Elder Packer seems a little distraught with me right now, but I am sure in a couple of days he will cool off. If you bring a six-pack of Pepsi (in a brown paper bag, of course), I'm sure Tommy would be mightily pleased.

I am not sure what Elder Packer drinks these days.

Your brother as always in the gospel harness, Elder David A. Bednar.
_David A. Bednar
_Emeritus
Posts: 134
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2007 2:28 pm

Post by _David A. Bednar »

The Dude wrote:I just want to say how much I'm enjoying this thread. I've always wanted to be a fly on the wall when the 15 get together for some high-powered God-talk. And this is more or less what I expected. Great fun!

Elder Bednar: you missed your chance to drop a punch-line like:

"Thusly I inquire of the Saints, yeah I ask each and every one of you in your very hearts, What's the dill, pickle?"

Get it? Dill = deal. It's a good pun when spoken. Just imagine the tabernacle shaking with righteous laughter.

Oh well, maybe next year.



My dear brother, The Dude. Thank you for your kind words of support. As Brother Joseph taught Nancy Rigdon, among other things, ...happiness is the object and design of our existence... I am eternally pleased that you are happily enjoying this thread. That even makes me happy (and after the chewing out I received last evening from Elder Packer, Lord knows I need some happiness in my life right now).

Do you have any idea why he could be so unhappy with me? I don't even think the clever pun you suggested above, had I have used it, would have worked on him. Oh, how I so desire to please him! But, I fear I always fail to match up to his standards and that if he becomes the Prophet one day, he might reorder the Quorum so that I could never be the Prophet, as Brother Brigham did with the other great thinker in the Quorum in his day, Elder Pratt. Perhaps, that is indeed the burden we must bear, being the intellectuals in the Quorum. Some of our brethren simply distrust us.

But, as always, I will put my shoulder to the wheel, and move along with a heart full of song, happy to be in the harness, whether at the front of the pack, or following up the rear. Yours in the spirit, Elder David A. Bednar
_KimberlyAnn
_Emeritus
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Joined: Thu Mar 22, 2007 2:03 pm

Post by _KimberlyAnn »

David A. Bednar wrote:
KimberlyAnn wrote:Elder Bednar, I think you're the cutest of all the apostles, barring that hunky Uchtdorf. His silky silver hair just drives me wild.

You look a bit tense. Perhaps your chubby secretary could loosen you up a little and burn a few calories at the same time? It would be an act of service for both of you.

Kimberly Ann


To my dear and sweet sister, KimberlyAnn,

I as always appreciate the fine support of my fellow brothers and sisters. I should mention here that Elder Uchtdorf's secretary has fallen ill suddenly. He is looking for a nice secretary, one with the spirit and willingness to obey. By any chance, are you looking for a job?

Clearly, you have typing skills. All we ask is that you start wearing clothes that match the image necessary for one of the Apostle's secretaries. If you were you to cover your shoulders and dress modestly, I think you would be a "shoe-in" for the job. What do you think?

Of course, if that position has already been filled before you have a chance to groom your resume, then perhaps you might be interested in coming to work for me? I will be soon passing on my secretary to the next apostle. Sadly, some of our Quorum brethren are soon to leave their mortal coils and move on to their next estate. Many positions are soon to be open here in the Quorum.

There is also, aside from the generous salary and benefits, a panty hose allowance. Think about it! You would be a perfect addition to our close-knit family here in the COB.

Anticipating your acceptance, with purity of heart and mind, your brother in the harness,

Elder David A. Bednar


Dear Brother Bedme, oops! I mean Bednar,

Although I'm not really looking for a job and I'm not very obedient, the many positions and harness do appeal to me. I don't wear pantyhose, but I do wear panties, (ususally), and as you can see, I've covered my shoulders for you.

Now, if you'd tell me a little about your pickle, I might just be persuaded to pay you a personal visit.

Yearning for your reply,

Kimberly Ann
_Tommy
_Emeritus
Posts: 61
Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2007 5:10 am

Post by _Tommy »

Elder Bednar,

I think I can even arrange a meeting with some of the other Apostles in the building

Indeed! I would be delighted to attend. Shall we use your office or mine? In either case, I suggest we have a couple of chairs readied of the same construction as the one our dear sister will sit in. We can place them to the side of the desk, yours or mine as we decide, and sit in them together and feast upon the words of Christ with our dear sister in an equal-looking relationship. In this arrangement, I hope to circumvent the intimidation that many have experienced separated from us by our large wooden desks during personal meetings. And I know that your comfortable leather chair...where did you get that? Was that David O. Mckay's chair? Anyway, when you swing slightly to the side, revealing the ample girth of your chair's rugged leather, it can come accross as overbearing for many of our young people. Especially for our lovely young sisters who are already intimidated by your position, clean white shirt, and handsome demeaner.

Isn't it interesting how the Lord has changed things in his due course? He must have a sense of irony, or humor. For not long ago the elder servants of the Lord, uneducated older men with gnarled faces had the young sisters lined up before them in order to carry out the Lord's purposes of procreation. A sacrafice it must have been for those sisters, a glorious sacrafice, but a sacrafice none the less! And now today, the Lord is grooming men of education, eloquence, and striking good looks to take the helm. And yet, you will know but a single woman in all your mortal years. How many of todays young women would stand in line and volunteer themselves as your wives? Yet, it will not be. A sacrafice for them no doubt! If only you could change places with Heber C. Kimball, how much happier for everyone (except Brother Heber of course!). But obedience is the first law of heaven, and sacrafice we must.

Finally, don't worry too much about our senior Elder who has given you some harsh words. You will only grow stronger. Anyway, if you still are saddened over this situation, just remember "who's next" if you know what I mean. I am well please with your work.

In the service of our God,

Your fellow Apostle.
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