What is the worst thing for apologists to defend?

[_asbestosman]

I am aware of people thinking such things happened to them.
I am sure they don't.

Of course, I once dreamed that something was going to happen and it did.
Fortunately, I understand the notion of a coincidence.

Since God doesn't seem to like us tempting Him, how could we tell the difference between coincidence and significant without a controlled experiement? Human intuition is so easilly wrong about guestimating probabilities.

[_mentalgymnast]

1. Priesthood Ban

Up at the FAIR conference yesterday Darius Gray was there. He's a long time black member who is quite well known. Been around the block a few times and has had interaction with the 1st Pres. He shared an "authorized" piece of information with us. He said that the priesthood ban was not of God. It was "allowed" (his words) by God. As to why it went so long he referred to the scripture:

“And as Jesus passed by, he saw a man which was blind from his birth.

“And his disciples asked him, saying, Master, who did sin, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind?

“Jesus answered, Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents: but that the works of God should be made manifest in him.” (John 9:1–3.)

He saw it as a test/trial and growing/developing experience for both the black folks and the white folks. They (members of the church) needed to overcome their own hangups and/or prejudices and not look at each other with jaundiced eyes, just as many others in the nation were struggling/attempting to do.

Darius and a woman by the name of Margaret Young are going to be releasing a video presentation soon that's going to go into the priesthood/black issues. We saw a preview of it. Nice flick.

Regards,
MG

[_Doctor Steuss]

1. Priesthood Ban

Up at the FAIR conference yesterday Darius Gray was there. He's a long time black member who is quite well known. Been around the block a few times and has had interaction with the 1st Pres. He shared an "authorized" piece of information with us. He said that the priesthood ban was not of God. It was "allowed" (his words) by God.
[...]

Oh, please oh please, I hope this gets put up on FAIR soon. I am so tired of getting "smacked" when I say that it wasn't of G-d.

Oh, what a blessed day this is.

[_mentalgymnast]

1. Priesthood Ban

Up at the FAIR conference yesterday Darius Gray was there. He's a long time black member who is quite well known. Been around the block a few times and has had interaction with the 1st Pres. He shared an "authorized" piece of information with us. He said that the priesthood ban was not of God. It was "allowed" (his words) by God.
[...]

Oh, please oh please, I hope this gets put up on FAIR soon. I am so tired of getting "smacked" when I say that it wasn't of G-d.

Oh, what a blessed day this is.

I hope they post it online too. I'm wondering if they will though because Darius and Margaret were doing their presentation kind of as an "add on" to the end of the lunch period. I'm questioning as to whether the FAIR folks will consider it an official presention or not. Have to wait and see.

Regards,
MG

[_richardMdBorn]

That's a dangerous assertion, because it's so much more complex than that. Most of us former TBMs on this forum used to be this exact same way. There's a very good reason why I was a believer in Mormonism for the first 36 of my 38 years, and it's not that I was stupid, or a liar. The mental conditioning and repetition, and indoctrination create blind spots which are only penetrated clearly with great effort, and one sometimes has to be lead to that point line by line, precept on precept.

For some people, the conditioning is too ingrained, and there really are no approaches left that can help the person learn to see around the blindspots. I'm convinced there are some people who simply cannot, literally, ever be convinced of the truth anymore, and it's a function of the state X years of Mormonism has left their brains in, and the sort of person they are in the first place. I think it takes a certain level of innate curiosity to ever be able to penetrate the BS and see the truth, and people who don't have it, probably never will.

Mormonism isn't the only offender in this regard. Take any dyed in the wool Jehovah's Witness, Catholic, Evangelical, Hindu, Muslim, or what have you, and they'll often be incapable of seeing the flaws in their own belief system, however clearly they may see the flaws in everyone elses, just like the TBMs are. It's not a Mormon thing, per se. It's a religion thing. I'm with Dawkins on this one.

No, it's not a religion thing. It's a human thing. Are Dawkins, Hitchens, etc., as aware of the defects in their atheistic belief system as they are in those of others? I doubt it (and this has been pointed out by reviewers of God is not Great).

[_sailgirl7]

Or perhaps for the sake of the person developing a better relationship with God and perhaps helping others do that also. When you think about it, all the attrocities in the world are quite short compared to the eternity that (we believe) will happen afterwards. Thus from that point of view we have more to gain from learning about God through various means than we do from having God solve world hunger.

I personally have nothing to gain from "learning" about God. I have everything to gain by doing what is right and helping my fellowman. It's no practical use to me to know how jealous, vengeful, all-knowing, merciful,just or wrathful God is. It's practical for me to learn about how better to serve my fellowman. Nothing else matters to me. Whether God does or does not solve world hunger is irrelavent to me. It is relavent to try. But then again- I'm just a "lost" soul now- so I can't grasp the finer points of religion anymore.

[_asbestosman]

But then again- I'm just a "lost" soul now- so I can't grasp the finer points of religion anymore.

Why say that? St. James says that helping the widows, fatherless, etc. is pure religion. I don't see why the good you or others do is vain just because you don't explicitly seek God. I think the good you have could be amplified with God's help, but you don't. I'm fine with us disagreeing on that.

[_Tarski]

I am aware of people thinking such things happened to them.
I am sure they don't.

Of course, I once dreamed that something was going to happen and it did.
Fortunately, I understand the notion of a coincidence.

Since God doesn't seem to like us tempting Him, .

Tempting him? What do you mean?

[_asbestosman]

Tempting him? What do you mean?

Tempting God referrs to testing/trying/proving God on our terms instead of His.

[_Tarski]

Tempting him? What do you mean?

Tempting God referrs to testing/trying/proving God on our terms instead of His.

cart before horse.
Perhaps that is a rationalization to explain away the fact that such tests never reveal any God. Maybe Nessy doesn't like to be tempted (tested, proved). That would explain a lot --but so would her not existing.



gods and monsters are fond of hiding.