New Faith-Based Threads Rule = Mormon NON-Discussions Board

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_Nightingale
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Post by _Nightingale »

Mister Scratch wrote:I suppose that I wonder a bit about the whole "faith-based" limiting device. What does this mean, exactly? I understand how some (e.g., Dartagnan) might want to launch threads in which it is a foregone conclusion that, say, God exists... But will this be applicable to other subjects? For example, would we expect threads considering the prophethood of Joseph Smith in which posters are prohibited from mentioning, say, polygamy, or stone-gazing?
(emphasis added)

This is where I see the disconnect between what some people are asking for and how others are interpreting it. It is not a "foregone conclusion that God exists" that would be the premise for participating in the thread. It is to acknowledge that the OP has that belief and that it is just an accepted fact that they do, not that God exists, even while others do not hold that view but that it is, in effect, asked and answered, and the thread is moving on from that point.

It's just a case of asking how we get past the ubiquitous"Joseph Smith was a pedophile" jab, for example, to discussing other issues, that one aside (unless the premise of the thread is "was Joseph Smith a pedophile" of course.

That is all anybody is trying to find a way to do, as far as I can see.

Say someone asks "Have you ever had a spiritual experience?" and they get 49 replies along the lines of "There is no god, no spirit, no heaven, no life after death and anyone who believes there is must be a certified idiot". This is not really answering the meat of the post. Or what if I say I had a prayer answered and wanted to talk about it to others who believe the same but that type of post serves only to cue the onslaught of "what hokum" type replies? And what purpose does it serve to have an LDS poster (on a board where they are specifically invited to participate) met with the epithet "cult lapdog" every time they put a finger on their keyboard?

I see a twofold issue:

1. Some people are speaking past each other and not understanding what the other is saying in terms of the idea of a "flag" on certain threads.

2. Some people don't want LDS posters here. Or maybe Christian posters at all?

To solve the first element, it's useful to keep trying to discuss it.

To solve the second, that would take a change of policy from the board owner, I would think. Absent that, even the harshest "critics" will have to accept that there will be Mormon/Christian posters (maybe, if they can feel it is a place in which they'd like to participate).

I don't really see why making accommodations to appeal to the widest possible group is a problem. If it can't be done then maybe it means this type of board can't survive. Is that true? Making accommodations doesn't take the steam out of the objections we have to Mormonism or religious belief in general, does it?

To reiterate, I can talk to an LDS poster about an issue, within the parameter of their belief, and have a useful discussion about whatever they have raised. That is to say, I accept that they believe that Joseph Smith was a prophet - and then we start from that point and move forward. Unless the issue at hand is "was Joseph Smith a prophet?", that does not need to be discussed on that particular thread. Leaving that point aside on a thread to discuss another issue doesn't mean I am indicating my belief in Joseph Smith but rather just that I am interested in talking to an LDS person about something other than that question, at least in that particular thread.

I think maybe what isn't helping is the way this idea was explained in the sticky post? I think by the very nature of the stated purpose of the board it should be obvious that "accommodations" would have to be made for people. That is one of the most difficult parts of running any discussion board - to find the happy balance to make the thing thrive. I think that board owners find out sooner or later that they can't run a 100% democracy, as appealing as that idea may be in theory, and that at some point, on some things, more of a "dictatorship" reigns. That would certainly apply to working out what the mandate of the board is and how to achieve it. I think we always have a tendency to want a place to be exactly right for us. But even in a democracy (especially in a democracy?) you are just not going to find that. Unless you create it yourself, if you can find a way to do that.
_asbestosman
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Post by _asbestosman »

Mister Scratch wrote:I'd actually be kind of interested to see what sort of "off-limits" list we could generate---I.e., what sorts of things Wade, Coggins, juliann, Nehor, and so forth think that critics should never, ever be able to mention. We can pass along the list to MAD, so that folks know going in when they can expect to be reprimanded.

For starters:

Sex
Temple stuff
Nazis / David Koresh / Terrorists / Other Godwinish things
Politics

severe limits on:
Polygamy
Polyandry
That's General Leo. He could be my friend if he weren't my enemy.
eritis sicut dii
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_Scottie
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Post by _Scottie »

Mister Scratch wrote:I've long been under the impression that TBMs are uninterested in open debate and/or discussion unless they can completely control the terms thereof. Was not this the underlying rationale for FAIR/MAD?

I disagree with this. I've seen several MAD posters try MDB, but the "free-speech" (translated: freedom to call TBM's brainwashed morons, or cult lapdogs, etc) has run them off. Who wants to participate in a forum like that?

I suppose that I wonder a bit about the whole "faith-based" limiting device. What does this mean, exactly? I understand how some (e.g., Dartagnan) might want to launch threads in which it is a foregone conclusion that, say, God exists... But will this be applicable to other subjects? For example, would we expect threads considering the prophethood of Joseph Smith in which posters are prohibited from mentioning, say, polygamy, or stone-gazing?

I suspect there will be some tweaking of the guidelines before we get it right.
If there's one thing I've learned from this board, it's that consensual sex with multiple partners is okay unless God commands it. - Abman

I find this place to be hostile toward all brands of stupidity. That's why I like it. - Some Schmo
_Scottie
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Post by _Scottie »

GoodK wrote:I think this was a good idea in theory, just not practical. If someone really wanted to post about matters of faith without argument, you think they would be here?

Again, where are you getting that disagreement and argument is not allowed??

We are simply trying to allow posters the ability to set a pre-defined framework on which discussion can move forth.
If there's one thing I've learned from this board, it's that consensual sex with multiple partners is okay unless God commands it. - Abman

I find this place to be hostile toward all brands of stupidity. That's why I like it. - Some Schmo
_skippy the dead
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Post by _skippy the dead »

Scottie wrote:I disagree with this. I've seen several MAD posters try MDB, but the "free-speech" (translated: freedom to call TBM's brainwashed morons, or cult lapdogs, etc) has run them off. Who wants to participate in a forum like that?


Again, if this is the problem, then the proposed solution misses by a mile. That sort of attack is currently not allowed in the celestial forum. The proposed rule does not change or enhance that.

(Crap - why can't I leave this alone!)
I may be going to hell in a bucket, babe / But at least I'm enjoying the ride.
-Grateful Dead (lyrics by John Perry Barlow)
_Mister Scratch
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Post by _Mister Scratch »

Scottie wrote:
Mister Scratch wrote:I've long been under the impression that TBMs are uninterested in open debate and/or discussion unless they can completely control the terms thereof. Was not this the underlying rationale for FAIR/MAD?

I disagree with this. I've seen several MAD posters try MDB, but the "free-speech" (translated: freedom to call TBM's brainwashed morons, or cult lapdogs, etc) has run them off. Who wants to participate in a forum like that?



Gee, I don't know if that's really it, Scottie. I mean, is that why DCP left? Or Bokovoy? Perhaps. The examples you list seem to have been applied by Infymus to Jason Bourne and Nehor, and yet both of those posters are still here. I think what you're saying is sort of in line with trying to claim that ex-mos refuse to participate on MAD because they are constantly being called "liars" by Pahoran, or "antis," or whatever else.... Pretty clearly, in my opinion, namecalling is not the issue. I know I have been called my fair share of names, and yet here I still stand. I suppose you could say that, relatively speaking, TBMs have thinner skins, and thus accommodations have to be made for them.
_Scottie
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Post by _Scottie »

skippy the dead wrote:
Scottie wrote:I disagree with this. I've seen several MAD posters try MDB, but the "free-speech" (translated: freedom to call TBM's brainwashed morons, or cult lapdogs, etc) has run them off. Who wants to participate in a forum like that?


Again, if this is the problem, then the proposed solution misses by a mile. That sort of attack is currently not allowed in the celestial forum. The proposed rule does not change or enhance that.

(Crap - why can't I leave this alone!)


Yeah, I know. Like I said, if it were up to me, you'd all have a whole slew of new rules to abide by.

Honestly, that wasn't the intended purpose of this. And I don't see that this change will actually draw any new TBM's here.
If there's one thing I've learned from this board, it's that consensual sex with multiple partners is okay unless God commands it. - Abman

I find this place to be hostile toward all brands of stupidity. That's why I like it. - Some Schmo
_Scottie
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Post by _Scottie »

Mister Scratch wrote:
Scottie wrote:
Mister Scratch wrote:I've long been under the impression that TBMs are uninterested in open debate and/or discussion unless they can completely control the terms thereof. Was not this the underlying rationale for FAIR/MAD?

I disagree with this. I've seen several MAD posters try MDB, but the "free-speech" (translated: freedom to call TBM's brainwashed morons, or cult lapdogs, etc) has run them off. Who wants to participate in a forum like that?



Gee, I don't know if that's really it, Scottie. I mean, is that why DCP left? Or Bokovoy? Perhaps. The examples you list seem to have been applied by Infymus to Jason Bourne and Nehor, and yet both of those posters are still here. I think what you're saying is sort of in line with trying to claim that ex-mos refuse to participate on MAD because they are constantly being called "liars" by Pahoran, or "antis," or whatever else.... Pretty clearly, in my opinion, namecalling is not the issue. I know I have been called my fair share of names, and yet here I still stand. I suppose you could say that, relatively speaking, TBMs have thinner skins, and thus accommodations have to be made for them.

Oh, I have no doubt that TBM's have thinner skins.

Why do you think they cry and report to every mildly off-color or barely insulting post at MAD? Why do you think the Mods over there are so heavy handed with the critics? They need to protect their thin skinned TBM's.

Sure, there are a few that stay. Jason is showing signs of getting fed up with Infy. Nehor...well, he's just Nehor. I think you could take a crap on his favorite rug and he'd just make a sarcastic quip and move on with life. Lack of anger is just as much a problem as too much anger...I think he has issues...;)

I can't pretend to know why these other guys left. But I can guarantee the abuse doesn't help.
If there's one thing I've learned from this board, it's that consensual sex with multiple partners is okay unless God commands it. - Abman

I find this place to be hostile toward all brands of stupidity. That's why I like it. - Some Schmo
_GoodK

Post by _GoodK »

Scottie wrote:
GoodK wrote:I think this was a good idea in theory, just not practical. If someone really wanted to post about matters of faith without argument, you think they would be here?

Again, where are you getting that disagreement and argument is not allowed??

We are simply trying to allow posters the ability to set a pre-defined framework on which discussion can move forth.


What kind of framework? That you have to accept the Bible as the infallible word of God?

That would mean disagreement and argument is not allowed. Maybe people can use the chat room function for like-minded discussion instead of the Forums?
_Mister Scratch
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Post by _Mister Scratch »

Scottie wrote:
Mister Scratch wrote:
Scottie wrote:
Mister Scratch wrote:I've long been under the impression that TBMs are uninterested in open debate and/or discussion unless they can completely control the terms thereof. Was not this the underlying rationale for FAIR/MAD?

I disagree with this. I've seen several MAD posters try MDB, but the "free-speech" (translated: freedom to call TBM's brainwashed morons, or cult lapdogs, etc) has run them off. Who wants to participate in a forum like that?



Gee, I don't know if that's really it, Scottie. I mean, is that why DCP left? Or Bokovoy? Perhaps. The examples you list seem to have been applied by Infymus to Jason Bourne and Nehor, and yet both of those posters are still here. I think what you're saying is sort of in line with trying to claim that ex-mos refuse to participate on MAD because they are constantly being called "liars" by Pahoran, or "antis," or whatever else.... Pretty clearly, in my opinion, namecalling is not the issue. I know I have been called my fair share of names, and yet here I still stand. I suppose you could say that, relatively speaking, TBMs have thinner skins, and thus accommodations have to be made for them.

Oh, I have no doubt that TBM's have thinner skins.

Why do you think they cry and report to every mildly off-color or barely insulting post at MAD? Why do you think the Mods over there are so heavy handed with the critics? They need to protect their thin skinned TBM's.



Well, in any case, I say: go ahead with the experiment. If you attract some TBMs, great. If not, they can just go back and sulk in their protective fantasy shell called MAD.
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