John, release your finances

[_Dr Exiled]

But what about ARIZONA!?!? What is Open Stories Foundation hiding in the Grand Canyon State besides those picturesque desert views?

It's too deep to comment on. All I can say is that the intelligence community could be involved, or not. Certain sources that cannot be disclosed might be able to say that certain things could have happened regarding Mr. Dehlin and these things could involve national security issues and the deep state, or it could be nothing at all. Clearly, Mr. Dehlin is taking too much money from those who claim to willingly be giving him their money. My sources say that there might be reliable rumors that he is constantly laughing at his dupes and has secret desires to earn as much money as he can and that he likes to make out with women like rosebud.

[_Rosebud]

What I don’t get Kish is the long diatribes here. Enjoy his podcast. Make your donations. Leave it at that.

Stop speculating when you’re lacking information. You don’t know.

If you’re content with Dehlin regardless of the veracity of any of the other claims, then why all the energy defending him? Let it all be true or not true and listen to his podcast. You’re too smart for all the speculation without information and I’m not dumb enough to change what I’m doing just because a few assholes assume I’m being deceptive, I’m unwell, or that Dehlin isn’t really as bad as all this and deserves their protection.

I’m not going to add the information and evidence to the thread that would move the discussion from speculation to anything more substantial or even that would make my arguments stronger. People have to be protected. Information has to be protected. Evidence has to be protected. There are a lot of real-world consequences to the crap Dehlin is up to and I’m not dumb enough to change priorities to suit a group of message board posters.

The result is a lot of waste of breath. From where I sit, you defend the indefensible using arguments that aren’t pertinent because you’re missing information. Major waste of time. You can spend your time doing it, but why?

But, this is a message board. That’s what message boards are for, I suppose. I’m very aware that choosing a message board for my medium means I have to deal with message board dwellers.

I did expect the smarter of the lot here to cotton on a long time ago. Most of them did. You’re the smart one who keeps harping on and on. Maybe I’m wrong, but when I see that, I tend to believe it’s more personal than the poster is letting on. You feign your nonchalance.

Anyway, i don’t get why I’m posting aboUt you now... aside from the fact that I’m sick in bed tonight. I should be working on something else. I can’t believe I’m getting into a meta-conversation about this.

That said, it would be a lot nicer for me if I could do this Dehlin job without all the Dehlin fans insulting me. Why do you think so few people stand up to him? If the stuff I’m saying is really true (and it is), there are a lot of angry hurt people (and there are). Of all the people who don’t deserve the insults regarding him, it’s me. I don’t deserve any of this crap. I put up with it because it’s not worth taking too seriously, but I don’t really get why people post in these threads. All of this is old.

Let me do this crappy job. Let Dehlin decide on his next move. You’re witnessing a tiny piece of a very large and long conversation on this board. This fraction is minuscule. Why assume that have you any valuable information worth posting on at all?

[_Rosebud]

And lostindc, I want to say that since I am committed to doing this job and since I have had to deal with a lot of Dehlin defenders insulting me over the last several years, I’ve appreciated your supportive participation. It’s meant a lot.

It’ll be nice when this is done playing itself out. Very soon, I hope.

[_Kishkumen]

I believe (in the Book of Mormon play song voice) that John is not a good person. This is based on trusted sources (some well known in the Mormon world).

I also find his content is a statement about the exmormon community. When Mormons leave, unfortunately the talent goes elsewhere.

I am surprised Mormons are gullible enough to purchase his seminars, fund his travels, misc expenses (a lot of gray), etc. I do get funding his podcast, if you like the interviews then go with it, I thought he did alright but didn't evolve over time. That's not a big deal, just my opinion.

I am especially surprised one would pay John Dehlin for instruction regarding transitioning out of a faith, good grief. Why? The guy lied about his reasons for going back to Church, set up his excommunication with publicity stunts, lied about why he was excommunicated (LGBT is one point), and then shortly after set up faith transition seminars. He was covered in accusations of shutting down well meaning individuals and groups, accused a sexual crap, accused of lack of transparency, slandering well meaning individuals, forcing non-disclosure agreements, creating gray areas for expenses, pushing individuals out that might threaten his role in the non-profit, and other accusations. WTF. I don't recall ever finding these messes with other non-profits. Do you hear this kind of stuff with John Larsen? Nope

My statements are all relative, I understand. It's no big deal. I see a Dehlin thread popup and it's whatever. I should probably stop commenting on Dehlin.

Comment all you like. John’s a messy guy. Very human. He has had a messy and very public journey. He did it in the midst of a lot of people and connected to a lot of people going through their own messy transitions.

I have no doubt that he has hurt other people, and, as I have said on similar threads in the past, I sure as hell would never elect to work for him. But, I can take him and his podcast just fine from the confines of my car or my daily exercise. He has done something I have enjoyed immensely, and I will deal with it on that level.

I have a difficult time judging him too harshly because I have been judged harshly by others and there are times when I really deserved it. Some people think I am a very, very bad person. I don’t believe there are all that many truly bad people. There are some, sure. There are even more people some want to blame and punish for having the wrong opinions and making the wrong mistakes.

My feeling is that I hope we can be more forgiving of each other and more tolerant of our differences. When people attack others too obsessively and viciously, that’s when the alarm bells go off in my mind and heart. Where does this end? Do people want to destroy John Dehlin or Daniel Peterson? I am not down with personal destruction or revenge. I don’t want to assist others who seek those things.

[_Kishkumen]

What I don’t get Kish is the long diatribes here. Enjoy his podcast. Make your donations. Leave it at that.

Stop speculating when you’re lacking information. You don’t know.

If you’re content with Dehlin regardless of the veracity of any of the other claims, then why all the energy defending him? Let it all be true or not true and listen to his podcast. You’re too smart for all the speculation without information and I’m not dumb enough to change what I’m doing just because a few assholes assume I’m being deceptive, I’m unwell, or that Dehlin isn’t really as bad as all this and deserves their protection.

I’m not going to add the information and evidence to the thread that would move the discussion from speculation to anything more substantial or even that would make my arguments stronger. People have to be protected. Information has to be protected. Evidence has to be protected. There are a lot of real-world consequences to the crap Dehlin is up to and I’m not dumb enough to change priorities to suit a group of message board posters.

The result is a lot of waste of breath. From where I sit, you defend the indefensible using arguments that aren’t pertinent because you’re missing information. Major waste of time. You can spend your time doing it, but why?

But, this is a message board. That’s what message boards are for, I suppose. I’m very aware that choosing a message board for my medium means I have to deal with message board dwellers.

I did expect the smarter of the lot here to cotton on a long time ago. Most of them did. You’re the smart one who keeps harping on and on. Maybe I’m wrong, but when I see that, I tend to believe it’s more personal than the poster is letting on. You feign your nonchalance.

Anyway, i don’t get why I’m posting aboUt you now... aside from the fact that I’m sick in bed tonight. I should be working on something else. I can’t believe I’m getting into a meta-conversation about this.

That said, it would be a lot nicer for me if I could do this Dehlin job without all the Dehlin fans insulting me. Why do you think so few people stand up to him? If the stuff I’m saying is really true (and it is), there are a lot of angry hurt people (and there are). Of all the people who don’t deserve the insults regarding him, it’s me. I don’t deserve any of this crap. I put up with it because it’s not worth taking too seriously, but I don’t really get why people post in these threads. All of this is old.

Let me do this crappy job. Let Dehlin decide on his next move. You’re witnessing a tiny piece of a very large and long conversation on this board. This fraction is minuscule. Why assume that have you any valuable information worth posting on at all?

Rosebud, at any time you could have represented things truthfully and accurately. You chose to engage in creepy, stalker-like intimidation tactics. YOU referred to the Chris Shelton podcasts, and I knew your depiction of them was a selective distortion. As I said to lostindc, I hate this revenge crap, be it directed at an ex-Mo or an apologist. You don’t control this board, and you don’t have a “right” to engage in character assassination with impunity. You may notice that I don’t participate heavily on the plagiarism thread. That one, which I am not a fan of, at least has the virtue of being based on readily observable evidence. If you want to waltz in here with threats, accusations, and no evidence, be prepared for opposition. You will be opposed.

[_Dr. Shades]

But what about ARIZONA!?!? What is Open Stories Foundation hiding in the Grand Canyon State besides those picturesque desert views?

I'm pretty sure that Arizona was the location of the Open Stories Conference wherein John became aware that wife-swapping had taken place and then ceased having or hosting such conferences.

[_Dr Exiled]

But what about ARIZONA!?!? What is Open Stories Foundation hiding in the Grand Canyon State besides those picturesque desert views?

I'm pretty sure that Arizona was the location of the Open Stories Conference wherein John became aware that wife-swapping had taken place and then ceased having or hosting such conferences.

He ceased the AZ conferences just because of a little adult action? I thought ex-mormon meant XXX experimentation and alcohol/drug filled excess.

[_cwald]

Same ol song and dance we've seen from Rosebud for years now. She throws out veiled accusations and slander, and then says she has proof and evidence but she's not going to tell us and post it here on this board and we should just believe her. Then she gets all defensive when we don't believe her and question her statements and motives.

It's like some of the encounters I have with Jr. High students.

[_Rosebud]

What I don’t get Kish is the long diatribes here. Enjoy his podcast. Make your donations. Leave it at that.

SNIP!

Let me do this ____ job. Let Dehlin decide on his next move. You’re witnessing a tiny piece of a very large and long conversation on this board. This fraction is minuscule. Why assume that have you any valuable information worth posting on at all?

Rosebud, at any time you could have represented things truthfully and accurately. You chose to engage in creepy, stalker-like intimidation tactics. YOU referred to the Chris Shelton podcasts, and I knew your depiction of them was a selective distortion. As I said to lostindc, I hate this revenge ____, be it directed at an ex-Mo or an apologist. You don’t control this board, and you don’t have a “right” to engage in character assassination with impunity. You may notice that I don’t participate heavily on the plagiarism thread. That one, which I am not a fan of, at least has the virtue of being based on readily observable evidence. If you want to waltz in here with threats, accusations, and no evidence, be prepared for opposition. You will be opposed.

I have no idea what the Chris Shelton podcast are.... so I’m pretty sure I didn’t allude to them. Remind me?

You don’t have enough information about me to make the accurate assessment that I’m being a creepy stalker. That assessment speaks about you, not me. That demonstrates the amount of information you have. The fact that I don’t put all the intel on a message board means I’m not an idiot. Seriously, that’s something an idiot would do. It’s not a good argument against me.

And I get accused of using intimidation tactics, on a baby message board? How is this intimidation? In general, the person using the intimidation is the person who has power to intimidate. Up to this point, that’s been John. He’s the one with the podcast feed. He’a the one who initiated bringing church authority into it. He’s the one who started the legal action. He’s the one with the influence. He’s the one who has been controlling the story.

You’re confused. What I’m doing here is not powerful enough to be intimidation. The only power it has is in its truthfulness. If it weren’t true, it’d mean nothing and would only completely discredit me. If it is true, it’s John’s own wrongs that give it power, not my “tactics.”

That said, the real power is coming. It’s not going to be an intimidation tactic; it’s going to be complete. That’s why John needs to make his decision about how he’s going to handle it now. The decision he makes about his finances and his transparency will play a role. The people supporting him (not the uninformed donors like you, but the people with real intel) deserve to be put on guard because they could end up having some culpability too. John uses shared responsibility to make other people guilty with him in order to prevent them from reporting him and standing up to him. Other people who are now also partially at fault also have decisions to make.

Anyway.... keep opposing me if it makes you feel like you’re contributing.

[_Rosebud]

Arizona is significant because of the future, not the past.

Although, his bald-faced lies that threw the Arizona region under the bus in 2013 and that he podcasted to all their TBM families sure isn’t helping him.