Suggestions Please

[_Mister Scratch]

How about "practicing without a license."

I wasn't aware that what I intend to practice requires a license. Could you point to a specific element of my "practice" that would require a licence? Certainly, I don't want to do anything that requires a license, that is unless I have a license.

by the way, Wade: I saw over on the fittingly named MADboard where you compared RfM to the KKK. This seems like an unfortunate move on your part. Just think: right when you were on the cusp of launching this "proactive" endeavor of yours, you pull a major boner such as that and put your foot in your mouth. Tsk, tsk, tsk. Now, all someone has to do is cite your post and it's essentially game over for Wade's Mormon Shrink Messageboard.

If people are looking for excuses not to heal and grow, but rather to dismiss and be defensive, then I am sure my KKK comparision (which I specified as relating only to behaviors and attitudes that qualify as bigotry) will come in rather handy.

However, those who rightly view it as a wakeup call, and who wish to find effectual and healthy (non-bigotted) ways to heal and grow, may find it useful as well.

In fact, given your "credentials", perhaps you would be a great candidate to test out my methods as a "fringe" member. We can get to the bottom of what has been driving your persistant criticism of the leadership of the Church. In the process, your trained minded can prevent me from stepping over the line of ethics if that ever happens, and you can learn firsthand whether my approach is viable or not. What do you say? Thanks, -Wade Englund-

I say "go for it," at the very least so I can determine whether your approach is laughable or not.

I am pleased to hear it. However, if she declines, I am wondering if you would be open to participating in her stead? We can try and get at what is driving your seeming obsession with MAD/FAIR and some of its prominate participants, if not also your hightened concerns about the SMC and Church courts.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

Lol... Wade, you don't get it, do you? If I am concerned about your credentials, motives, and methods, why on earth would I submit myself to an analysis by you? It's like saying, "Hey, I know you're not a real doctor, but if you're determined to prove it, well, okay, go ahead and perform the surgery!" Nuts, right?

Anyhow, I'll accept your offer provided that you can demonstrate how, why, and in what ways my "seeming obsession" is in any way different from what Prof. Peterson does with his RfM quotes, and his "monitoring" of this board.

[_Sam Harris]

As I have mentioned to others, I certainly understand the apprehension.

And, as far as what you said about the "you" focus, I think you are right to some degree. I am currently formulating some basic procedure (step-by-step on how to proceed through the process) which should address your concern. My hearing their "story" as they currently see things, is, for a variety of important reasons, a key beginning step. Adherence to the Guiding Principles will be something they transition into as things proceed.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

Best of luck, Wade.

Here's my take on when a victim stops being a victim:

Let's start with children. When you're a child, you have no control over your environment. You can't just up and leave, most abused children are scared into not telling. I was so ticked when I tured 18, because before then, if I had talked, I could have forced my parents to do right. Now, all I'll be told by a judge is "move out" which I'm on the brink of doing. Praise God, I have the funds to pay off all my debt, and I should be out by my 26th birthday!

Kids don't have control. And many adults take that wounded inner child with them. I know I did. But there has to come a point when you recognize the existence of that wounded inner child, and make the effort to heal that child. I've tried many techniques, and I believe they have worked over time. If you want, I can recommend some books, both secular and spiritual that I have read that have helped me, as well as some websites, techniques, etc. I've also helped people find assistance in their area in the past. I'll offer some help as a vote of good faith if this as you say it will be, a place of healing regardless of faith.

With regards to adults, there are a lot of people out there caught up in dysfunctional victim cycles. I think that for many, it would be dangerous for us to work with them. I think that if it is recognized that they are in this cycle, the recommendation for therapy might work. Now, when dealing with the person who realizes that they're in or have been in victim mode, your site might work for them.

Just thoughts...

[_wenglund]

Hi Scratch,

I figured that the chances were slim that you were serious in what you said earlier in the thread, but I thought I would give you the benefit of the doubt. Anyway, it is now certain that you weren't, and so I should have gone with the odds.

So, nevermind.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[_Mister Scratch]

Hi Scratch,

I figured that the chances were slim that you were serious in what you said earlier in the thread, but I thought I would give you the benefit of the doubt. Anyway, it is now certain that you weren't, and so I should have gone with the odds.

So, nevermind.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

Serious about what, Wade? That I'd be willing to serve as an admin on your new board? Sure I was serious! I'd love to help out, particularly if it meant getting to work alongside one of my all-time favorite MAD posters, Calmoriah. We could start by asking her what psychological problem she has that causes her to shun people, or behave in vindictive ways. What do you think?

Also, I devoted considerable time going through your "Ten Step" list of points, applying it to Suzi. (Interesting choice of name, by the way.) Why no response?

[_wenglund]

Hi GIMR,

I enjoyed your insightful thoughts about "victims", and I would very much appreciate you pointing me to the resources you mentioned. I am in the process of compiling a resource page and I hope to have a way for participants to give their endorsements. Your suggestions will come in handy.

I mentioned previously that I was formulating a step-by-step guide for how one may proceed through the process. Below is a rough draft. Please let me know what you think.

How This Healing and Growth Process Works:
(Step-by-step instructions on how to proceed through this intervention)

1. Read through the Guiding Principles to see if they are agreeable to you.
2. Register to be a participant on this site using an anonymous screen name that will protect your identity, and also fill out the biographical questionnaire.
3. Once you have registered, please open a new thread and:
a) Put your screen name in the subject line.
b) Tell your story without disclosing the real identity and specific geographic location of any person or organization indicated therein. Include the most significant events, and describe, if you are able, the specific emotions you experienced during and subsequent to those events.
c) Indicate how you would like to be helped and/or what you wish to see accomplished here.
4. The staff and participants here will then interact with you on your personal thread, and using the Guiding Principles, help you to hone in on and find healthy and workable resolutions to your most critical issues.
5. You will be assisted in formulating reasonable expectations and in setting reachable goals and in also working out effective strategies for achieving those goals. Depending upon the nature and complexity of the issues you have, we anticipate that positive results may, to one degree or another, be realized almost immediately, and most goals achieved to a satisfactory level within months if not weeks.
6. As things progress, you will be asked from time to time to do some "homework". Once the homework is completed, please report the results on your personal thread.
7. If you have any apprehensions or concerns, or if you are unclear about things, or if you have some constructive criticisms or suggestions, please feel free to state them on your personal thread.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[_Lucretia MacEvil]

Hi Scratch,

I am encouraged by your willing support and enthusiasm.

Let's see how you might handle a hypothetical test case:

Suzi is in her early 30's, single (never married and no kids), return missionary, and has been active in the Church all her life. There have been several traumatic events in her life that have shaken her faith in God, but more so in the Church. Because of her loss of faith, she doesn't feel welcomed or at home in the singles ward she was attending, and even less so in married wards she has tried out on occasion. She is embittered against the Church, and to some degree God, for all the troubles she has been forced to face in her life, as well as the lack of success in realizing her most treasured dream--i.e. marriage.

How would you go about helping this person to heal?

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

I'm a therapist wanna-be too, so I'll give this a shot. First, I would advise her that you (Wade) or unlikely any other believing Mormon will be capable of giving her neutral counsel and will have an agenda to at least bring her back into the faith or at most, perhaps, to prove to himself that she is a bigot in order to bolster his own faith. If she needs to deal with the traumatic events of her life, I would advise her to seek neutral and qualified counsel on those issues.

Second, I would advise her that, since she has lost faith in the church, that she not expect to find acceptance or happiness in any ward of the church and quit attending. I would advise her to get on the internet and read up about the issues and controversies so that her loss of faith will be based on facts more than her personal trauma ... with the possibility that she may regain her faith in the church based on facts instead of personal trauma ... sobeit.

Wade, why don't you focus your offers of healing and growth to believing members of the church? So many I see are angry and unhappy about a number of things, i.e., their work, the state of the world (basically going to hell in a hand-basket, as they perceive it), persecution/bigotry against the early church and the present church (as they perceive it), family/friends leaving the church, the existence of RFM, etc., etc., etc. The idea of you offering help to ex-mormons is arrogant and unsuitable on so many levels -- first simply because your or any believing Mormon cannot be neutral on the subject and second because you, personally, are unqualified and you are an "unhealed healer" with a huge agenda. I can't imagine why anyone would turn to you in the first place, except out of morbid curiosity, maybe, but if anyone so naïve and vulnerable should fall into your hands I do pity them.

All that said, I think your Guiding Principles are good. Mormons I know would benefit from them. Actually, any just about Mormons would benefit from them because they would be very new ideas to most.

[_Mister Scratch]

You know what Wade? I cannot help but feel that, in the end, this is really just a self-serving endeavor. Your feelings are hurt that people would be critical of your "most precious and dear" Church, and so now you're trying to launch this Mormon Shrink messageboard in order to punish/brainwash/change all the people who've been bugging you. Why not just admit that the Church has fouled up in certain arenas? I'm sure you'll feel better!

by the way: what is the "Recovery from Murmurism" [sic] site you referred to in one of your MADboard posts?

[_Dr. Shades]

Harmony:

I believe you when you say there are certain ethical considerations that Wade is/would/will be inadvertently violating by not knowing what they are.

However, for non-specialists such as myself, will you please give us a brief run-down of what, exactly, those are?

[_Lucretia MacEvil]

You know what Wade? I cannot help but feel that, in the end, this is really just a self-serving endeavor. Your feelings are hurt that people would be critical of your "most precious and dear" Church, and so now you're trying to launch this Mormon Shrink messageboard in order to punish/brainwash/change all the people who've been bugging you. Why not just admit that the Church has fouled up in certain arenas? I'm sure you'll feel better!

by the way: what is the "Recovery from Murmurism" [sic] site you referred to in one of your MADboard posts?

This is my opinion exactly, that Wade's entire internet career has been based on the insecurity and unhappiness he gets from the mere fact that some people do not accept the church at face value. At least this one is fairly benign compared the anti-bigotry iniative (which as far as I know he is still pursuing).

Recovery from Murmurism -- I think I recall this from years ago, he wrote take-offs on the recovery stories from RFM. It was a collossal expenditure of time and effort, and quite clever even, and probably made him feel back in control for a while, but sheesh, nobody paid much attention and he's back where he started.

[_harmony]

Harmony:

I believe you when you say there are certain ethical considerations that Wade is/would/will be inadvertently violating by not knowing what they are.

However, for non-specialists such as myself, will you please give us a brief run-down of what, exactly, those are?

1. uncredentialed counselors are unethical

2. lack of confidentiality is unethical

3. no privilege and no privacy

4. no way to verify input from either direction

5. unethical record keeping

I would never lend my credentials to anything like this. The whole premise is unethical at its foundation.