CWK: Becoming a god: deification in Mormonism and Orthodox theosis

[Kishkumen]

Why on earth would you want such a corrupt institution to continue and thrive??

I want Mormonism to thrive, not the LDS Church per se.

[Dr. Shades]

Why on earth would you want such a corrupt institution to continue and thrive??

I want Mormonism to thrive, not the LDS Church per se.

So, falsehoods ought to thrive?

[Kishkumen]

So, falsehoods ought to thrive?

Fundamentalism should not thrive. I am not sure which falsehoods you are talking about. You talk like a fundamentalist with a new set of fundamentals.

[Dr. Shades]

So, falsehoods ought to thrive?

Fundamentalism should not thrive. I am not sure which falsehoods you are talking about. You talk like a fundamentalist with a new set of fundamentals.

The falsehoods are legion. Like the falsehood that a guy saw God and Jesus (depending on the account) in 1820 (depending on the account). Or that Nephites and Lamanites existed, archaeology be damned. Or that people should pay 10% of their income to a multi-billion dollar tax-exempt corporation at the expense of saving for the future. Or that retired couples should pay for the “privilege” of providing free labor to a multi-billion dollar tax-exempt corporation instead of bonding with their grandchildren. Or that young men should defer college for two years in order to exhaust their savings to serve as cult recruiters. Or that young women who experiment with any form of intimacy are “licked cupcakes” that no man will ever want for the rest of her life except perhaps as a sex toy. Or that homosexual individuals risk their salvation unless they remain strictly celibate for their entire lives. Or that it’s okay for a middle-aged man to grill a young person behind closed doors about the latter’s masturbatory practices.

You know, falsehoods like that.

But hey, if you want said falsehoods to thrive, then I guess you have your reasons. Hopefully I can be given a pass for failing to understand why.

[Rivendale]

Fundamentalism should not thrive. I am not sure which falsehoods you are talking about. You talk like a fundamentalist with a new set of fundamentals.

The falsehoods are legion. Like the falsehood that a guy saw God and Jesus (depending on the account) in 1820 (depending on the account). Or that Nephites and Lamanites existed, archaeology be damned. Or that people should pay 10% of their income to a multi-billion dollar tax-exempt corporation at the expense of saving for the future. Or that retired couples should pay for the “privilege” of providing free labor to a multi-billion dollar tax-exempt corporation instead of bonding with their grandchildren. Or that young men should defer college for two years in order to exhaust their savings to serve as cult recruiters. Or that young women who experiment with any form of intimacy are “licked cupcakes” that no man will ever want for the rest of her life except perhaps as a sex toy. Or that homosexual individuals risk their salvation unless they remain strictly celibate for their entire lives. Or tat it’s okay for a middle-aged man to grill a young person behind closed doors about the latter’s masturbatory practices.

You know, falsehoods like that.

But hey, if you want said falsehoods to thrive, then I guess you have your reasons. Hopefully I can be given a pass for failing to understand why.

This thread is infuriating. Castigating people for being obtuse about historical techniques. Critiquing the people that initiated the deficiency of Mormon truth claims under some strange guise that Satanic accusations somehow put Mormon missionaries in more emotional and physical harm. Creating a caste system of players that critique Mormonism and placing non gate keepers of true Christianity out of bounds and hands off. And he wants it to thrive. This stuff is awfull.

[Kishkumen]

The falsehoods are legion. Like the falsehood that a guy saw God and Jesus (depending on the account) in 1820 (depending on the account). Or that Nephites and Lamanites existed, archaeology be damned. Or that people should pay 10% of their income to a multi-billion dollar tax-exempt corporation at the expense of saving for the future. Or that retired couples should pay for the “privilege” of providing free labor to a multi-billion dollar tax-exempt corporation instead of bonding with their grandchildren. Or that young men should defer college for two years in order to exhaust their savings to serve as cult recruiters. Or that young women who experiment with any form of intimacy are “licked cupcakes” that no man will ever want for the rest of her life except perhaps as a sex toy. Or that homosexual individuals risk their salvation unless they remain strictly celibate for their entire lives. Or that it’s okay for a middle-aged man to grill a young person behind closed doors about the latter’s masturbatory practices.

You know, falsehoods like that.

But hey, if you want said falsehoods to thrive, then I guess you have your reasons. Hopefully I can be given a pass for failing to understand why.

Myths thrive everywhere, Shades. I see the problem being fundamentalism that insists stories are all facts and that we should go to war with each other over them. The fact that you see an uncomplicated straight line from Joseph Smith's myths to EPA makes me worry about your judgment. People will invest in myths because it is part of the human condition. Mitigating the problems that result will always be a part of it, too. I think it is incredibly arrogant to imagine that carping about human devotion to myth will somehow rectify the situation. Push for reform; don't push for shaming and humiliation. I think that The Widow's Mite has done more good than all of the ex-Mo criticism of Mormonism has done, and it did so by not criticizing Mormonism. There's something to think about. It simply reported the neutral facts to the best of its ability.

[Kishkumen]

This thread is infuriating. Castigating people for being obtuse about historical techniques. Critiquing the people that initiated the deficiency of Mormon truth claims under some strange guise that Satanic accusations somehow put Mormon missionaries in more emotional and physical harm. Creating a caste system of players that critique Mormonism and placing non gate keepers of true Christianity out of bounds and hands off. And he wants it to thrive. This stuff is awfull.

Yeah, I don't think you understand what I am saying. I say let the LDS Church be better because fighting it as though one can take it out, or ridiculing it to make others shun Mormons or hate them does not lead to positive outcomes. Yes, I want the LDS Church to be the best version of itself it can be, and I wish the same for any other human community. Not successful in its worst aspects, not success in doing bad things, but reforming to do more good, do less harm, etc.

How is that awful, exactly?

This has been my position for a very long time. It is frustrating not to be heard, but I guess that is the way things go. People go online to have their views affirmed by the chorus of those who share the same beliefs and prejudices. I have seen it countless times now. Sure, think the worst of me. Make out my views as if they were awful. Lovely.

[Rivendale]

This thread is infuriating. Castigating people for being obtuse about historical techniques. Critiquing the people that initiated the deficiency of Mormon truth claims under some strange guise that Satanic accusations somehow put Mormon missionaries in more emotional and physical harm. Creating a caste system of players that critique Mormonism and placing non gate keepers of true Christianity out of bounds and hands off. And he wants it to thrive. This stuff is awfull.

Yeah, I don't think you understand what I am saying. I say let the LDS Church be better because fighting it as though one can take it out, or ridiculing it to make others shun Mormons or hate them does not lead to positive outcomes. Yes, I want the LDS Church to be the best version of itself it can be, and I wish the same for any other human community. Not successful in its worst aspects, not success in doing bad things, but reforming to do more good, do less harm, etc.

How is that awful, exactly?

This has been my position for a very long time. It is frustrating not to be heard, but I guess that is the way things go. People go online to have their views affirmed by the chorus of those who share the same beliefs and prejudices. I have seen it countless times now. Sure, think the worst of me. Make out my views as if they were awful. Lovely.

Be a better communicator then. Some organizations don't deserve to be the best version of themselves unlike people. Individuals don't dictate large swaths of demands that control infinitesimal details of their lives and then blame historical anomalies or bizarre conspiracy theories as justification for their inert better nature.

[Kishkumen]

Be a better communicator then. Some organizations don't deserve to be the best version of themselves unlike people. Individuals don't dictate large swaths of demands that control infinitesimal details of their lives and then blame historical anomalies or bizarre conspiracy theories as justification for their inert better nature.

Be a better reader. It's a two-way street. Yes, some organizations don't deserve to be the best version of themselves. Say, the Nazi Party, for example. But, Mormons aren't Nazis. And, I would hope that you could have a more realistic appreciation of the flaws and virtues of Mormonism than would lead you to condone people who stoke prejudice against Mormonism and Mormons.

[Rivendale]

Be a better communicator then. Some organizations don't deserve to be the best version of themselves unlike people. Individuals don't dictate large swaths of demands that control infinitesimal details of their lives and then blame historical anomalies or bizarre conspiracy theories as justification for their inert better nature.

Be a better reader. It's a two-way street. Yes, some organizations don't deserve to be the best version of themselves. Say, the Nazi Party, for example. But, Mormons aren't Nazis. And, I would hope that you could have a more realistic appreciation of the flaws and virtues of Mormonism than would lead you to condone people who stoke prejudice against Mormonism and Mormons.

Nobody is stroking prejudice against Mormons. Key word on that thread was organizations. Plural. Not singular. Organizations have marching orders that don't originate ex nihilo.