Epic Mormonism Live on Rosebud Accusations

[Kishkumen]

I hear you, and on a purely emotional quotient scale, you're right. But that's part of joining a startup and mixing in romance. I don't mean to be harsh to true victims of sexual harassment. However, I honestly believe that Rosebud is not one of those victims. She lost a lot from this experience and I frankly think she and everyone banging this issue to death should just drop it and move on.

Another suggestive data point is her fight with the franchiser she got involved with. She broke the contract because she claimed they were doing business illegally. Now she owes them over a quarter mill, but she writes a book about it and blames the whole thing on JD. Fits the pattern quite well.

[Dr Moore]

So sexual harassment can take place only within a work environment?

Counsellor, isn't there a legal definition of "sexual harassment" which specifically applies to workplace environments? That would be the operative definition for this thread, would it not?

And then only from the top down?

The bar is much lower for top-down, and most companies have a written policy proscribing ANY relations between a manager and a subordinate, no matter how many levels down that subordinate may be.

But this "bar" does not apply to companies under 15 employees, unless those companies have a sexual harassment policy in place. Open Stories Foundation did not.

[Lem]

No. She posted that while she was not an employee. It was despicable and disgusting, possibly libelous, but not sexual harassment.

So sexual harassment can take place only within a work environment?

And then only from the top down?

Regardless of anything the subordinate may do or not do?

This definition is far too limited for such a broad category as sexual harassment, I think.

One would almost get the idea it was intentionally fashioned in such a limited manner so as to achieve a desired result.

Were you planning to answer my question? You asked me to answer yours first, which I did.

I await your reply to my question.

If Rosebud had ceased and desisted as JD asked, there is no reason to suspect the board would ever have gotten involved.

Rosebud could still have been working for Open Stories Foundation doing the thing she loved if she had just backed down when asked and cooled her jets.

Sexual harassment can be a two-way street.

When I asked about this before, you brought up Rosebud's post about JD's erectile dysfunction, which I agree is inappropriate.

What I am more interested in, however, are your thoughts, so I will repeat my question: are you suggesting that if a woman would have just "ceased and desisted", and "just backed down when asked and cooled her jets" when a superior was finished with her as a sexual plaything, she could have kept her job?

[Esme]

Were there any non-consensual aspects for JD or only for Rosebud in your view?

I think it was happening both ways at different points throughout the relationship.
The issue seems to be teasing out the employee status, who had more power, did Rosebud feel her job was at risk based on the relationship, etc.

[Dr Moore]

No, I don't believe that sexual harassment needs to be an unfortunate but necessary "part of joining a startup."

Neither do I. But the law does seem pretty clear that those who mix romance with work in a startup environment do so entirely at their own risk. Both parties.

[Kishkumen]

Well thanks, Dr. Moore. You have once again done Cassius University proud in your research on Rosebud’s baseless and meritless accusations against JD. Hopefully she learns not to use sexual harassment claims cynically for the purposes of grifting money and pursuing a vendetta. But who knows? Maybe she is raking in the donations and all of us are fools for our concern.

[Dr Moore]

I hear you, and on a purely emotional quotient scale, you're right. But that's part of joining a startup and mixing in romance. I don't mean to be harsh to true victims of sexual harassment. However, I honestly believe that Rosebud is not one of those victims. She lost a lot from this experience and I frankly think she and everyone banging this issue to death should just drop it and move on.

Another suggestive data point is her fight with the franchiser she got involved with. She broke the contract because she claimed they were doing business illegally. Now she owes them over a quarter mill, but she writes a book about it and blames the whole thing on JD. Fits the pattern quite well.

For sure. Her track record shows an utter lack of business sense and a personality that is wholly unequipped to do well in the risk stage of business building. She may have other problems inhibiting that capability. But that's not my area of expertise.

[Kishkumen]

I think it was happening both ways at different points throughout the relationship.
The issue seems to be teasing out the employee status, who had more power, did Rosebud feel her job was at risk based on the relationship, etc.

Thanks, Esme. It was really a complicated mess. Would that it had never happened.

[Esme]

Another suggestive data point is her fight with the franchiser she got involved with. She broke the contract because she claimed they were doing business illegally. Now she owes them over a quarter mill, but she writes a book about it and blames the whole thing on JD. Fits the pattern quite well.

Is there any place where she actually directly blames John for her franchise disaster? I thought it seems more loose, like "I had to get a job, since I unfairly lost my job and this disaster never would have happened if I hadn't unfairly lost my job...."

[Kishkumen]

For sure. Her track record shows an utter lack of business sense and a personality that is wholly unequipped to do well in the risk stage of business building. She may have other problems inhibiting that capability. But that's not my area of expertise.

I wish her the best in figuring that out. It would be great to see her build a business that is so successful it dwarfs JD’s. Seeing her living large as the CEO of a Fortune 500 company would be sweet.