The Nehor wrote: I agree with you but at the same time Brigham Young was also teaching that God created Adam in the Garden. The most common explanations I've heard:
1. Adam is the name of God. Considering what Adam means this might have some merit. 2. Adam is the Holy Ghost and 'the only God with which we have to do' because we live in a Telestial state. 3. (rare) Adam is God the Father in some sense we don't understand.
I use 1 as a placeholder for right now while delving into 3 some more. It seems like there might be something there.
From my readings, it seems that this teaching fits in with the "one eternal round" idea, that Adam is both first and last, origin and destiny. I've never heard explanations 1 or 2; rather, I've heard that "Adam" is a title meaning the first man, and in that sense God the Father is our Adam and our God because we are his children. But then that doesn't make any sense when you consider that Adam is said to have brought one of his celestial wives to the garden with him. The simplest explanation is that Brigham Young may have believed in multiple mortalities, that a celestial being could and did "fall" in setting up the probationary period for his spirit children. Just about all of Brigham's teachings regarding Adam make sense in that regard.
Of course, the most likely explanation is that Brigham didn't know what he was talking about because he was not a prophet, after all.
It's possible he didn't know what he was talking about but I still believe he was a Prophet.
Don't you think a prophet ought to know who God is?
I would think so. Especially as we believe they talk to him. Or he talks to them, or something like that.
"Praise to the man who communed with Jehova... or was that Elohim? Or Adam? Dangit, I'm so confuselated!"
Mormonism ceased being a compelling topic for me when I finally came to terms with its transformation from a personality cult into a combination of a real estate company, a SuperPac, and Westboro Baptist Church. - Kishkumen
It's possible he didn't know what he was talking about but I still believe he was a Prophet.
Exactly...
If prohets are men who supposedly commune with the divine, one would think these men would be clear on at least a few things pertaining to the divine.
However, if a prophet is just an elderly man who runs an organization then it doens't matter what he knows or doesn't know.
My observation is that for many, a prophet no longer means what we all thought it meant... ya know, "whether my voice or the voice of my prophets it is the same."
;-)
~dancer~
Last edited by Bing [Bot] on Thu Sep 06, 2007 7:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"The search for reality is the most dangerous of all undertakings for it destroys the world in which you live." Nisargadatta Maharaj
It's possible he didn't know what he was talking about but I still believe he was a Prophet.
Exactly...
If prohets are men who supposedly communes with the divine, one would think these men would be clear on at least a few things pertaining to the divine.
However, if a prophet is just an elderly man who runs an organization then it doens't matter what he knows or doesn't know.
My observation is that for many, a prophet no longer means what we all thought it meant... ya know, "whether my voice or the voice of my prophets it is the same."
;-)
~dancer~
Hinckley himself never admits to talking directly with god. He told Larry King (I think it was him) that he receives revelation by praying about something and then waiting for the burning in the bosom. It sounds like how any person communicates with god.
I believe, and again this is just my opinion being an agnostic, that none of the prophets really talk to god. However, every Latter-Day prophet after Joseph Smith truly believes Joseph Smith spoke directly with god and Jesus. They truly believe that the church was restored by Joseph Smith and they are the leaders of the church, but they cannot talk to god the same way. They don't come right out and say it, but I think their testimony that Joseph Smith talked to god is good enough for them, and if the members believe they talk to god it doesn't matter because at least Joseph Smith did.
"We of this Church do not rely on any man-made statement concerning the nature of Deity. Our knowledge comes directly from the personal experience of Joseph Smith." - Gordon B. Hinckley
"It's wrong to criticize leaders of the Mormon Church even if the criticism is true." - Dallin H. Oaks
Jason Bourne wrote:Don't you think a prophet ought to know who God is?
As much as man can know, yes. Does this remove the possibility of mistakes? No. I'm still not entirely sure he was wrong though.
"Surely he knows that DCP, The Nehor, Lamanite, and other key apologists..." -Scratch clarifying my status in apologetics "I admit it; I'm a petty, petty man." -Some Schmo
Jason Bourne wrote:Don't you think a prophet ought to know who God is?
As much as man can know, yes. Does this remove the possibility of mistakes? No. I'm still not entirely sure he was wrong though.
If he was right, than Spencer Kimball was wrong. Either way, I think you have a problem when a prophet of God holds a fundamentally mistaken view of God.
Jason Bourne wrote:Don't you think a prophet ought to know who God is?
As much as man can know, yes. Does this remove the possibility of mistakes? No. I'm still not entirely sure he was wrong though.
If he was right, than Spencer Kimball was wrong. Either way, I think you have a problem when a prophet of God holds a fundamentally mistaken view of God.
Actually what Spencer W. Kimball said was that the way that people understood what was said was wrong.
"Surely he knows that DCP, The Nehor, Lamanite, and other key apologists..." -Scratch clarifying my status in apologetics "I admit it; I'm a petty, petty man." -Some Schmo
The Nehor wrote: Actually what Spencer W. Kimball said was that the way that people understood what was said was wrong.
Then we know Kimball was wrong. Even McConkie admitted that BY wasn't misunderstood.
The day I believe everything McConkie ever said...........
"Surely he knows that DCP, The Nehor, Lamanite, and other key apologists..." -Scratch clarifying my status in apologetics "I admit it; I'm a petty, petty man." -Some Schmo