Mormon at ages 11, 15, 24 is really Joseph Smith Jr., in disguise!

[Philo Sofee]

Ponderizing all the time...

[Shulem]

Prophet Mormon is first introduced in 3 Nephi as a narrator, compiler, and producer of the plates at hand. No mention is given of Mormon's upbringing other than the racial remark of being a "pure descendent of Lehi" which seems to make him better than everyone else who is not of that descent. Racist creeds that are unwelcome in our times of modern enlightenment are found in the Book of Mormon and seem to be demonstrated in Mormon's statement. It comes across as racist and self-righteous!

10 Therefore I have made my  record of these things according to the record of Nephi, which was engraven on the plates which were called the bplates of Nephi.

11 And behold, I do make the record on plates which I have made with mine own hands.

12 And behold, I am called  Mormon, being called after the  land of Mormon, the land in which Alma did establish the church among the people, yea, the first church which was established among them after their transgression.

<snip>

20 I am Mormon, and a pure descendant of Lehi.

Mormon continues by stating how great the population had increased over the years and yet still we are given no worldly pedigree or qualifications needed to link Mormon with his incredible commission of becoming General of the Army during wars in which he claimed to take part as a supreme leader of sorts.

23 And now I, Mormon, would that ye should know that the people had multiplied, insomuch that they were spread upon all the face of the land...

Mormon again introduces himself in his very own book entitled the "The Book of Mormon," chapter one, as previously quoted repeatedly throughout this thread. He offers no pedigree or qualifications in which he was chosen leader of the Nephites other than he was "large in stature," and he was learned, sober, and quick to observe. Assumptions about his father's noble qualifications or career are nothing more than assertions made by apologists attempting to fill in missing gaps that should exist in the text but do not because of a poor storyline narrated by Joseph Smith.

[Shulem]

I feel inclined to point out an interesting contrast given by two narrators concerning different circumstances whereby one (Alma) provides too much information and the other (Mormon) provides too little information. Both narrators are anxious to tell the tale of the stories and in doing so we can discern the information given is out of balance with what's necessary in relating a true story based on real circumstances.

First, we are given virtually no information of Mormon's family other than his father was named Mormon and carried him southward to Zarahemla during a time of war. I pointed out earlier that it seems the true author (Smith) was holding back on details as to not arouse suspicion that the real character of young Mormon was actually Joseph Smith's own life being planted in the story. Any information given about his own family could arouse suspicion because they might see through the ruse and recognize that Joseph had placed himself in the story and was fantasizing.

Second, I refer to another thread wherein Alma counted the number of dead Lamanites that were slain in a quick-paced battle where time was of the essence and yet we are informed that the body count for Lamanites was precisely 12,532. But this is simply too much information and stands out like a sore thumb in showing the story is not only unrealistic but the data given is a fantasized number that serves as inappropriate window dressing for a story anxious to tell too much in an effort to make it seem real.

[Shulem]

However, to be fair, a closer look at Book of Mormon narration and timeline does support the idea, but goes without saying, that Mormon was of royal descent directly from the loins of Nephi. Bear in mind, the first kings were descendants of Nephi beginning with king Nephi, so when Mormon says, "Behold, I make an end of speaking concerning this people. I am the son of Mormon, and my father was a descendant of Nephi," we are given the impression of this being an indirect claim to royal lineage without coming straight out and saying it. Recall that Mormon introduced himself as being a direct descendant of Nephi and how his Father Mormon carried him southward which may also have certain connotations that Mormon alluded to being of royal descent without coming out and making that direct claim. If so, it's simply a matter of poor story construction and I suspect Smith was tired and wanted to wrap up the book. But all in all, it's very reasonable to conclude that Mormon and his father were of noble heritage, hence his position and the availability of the plates which were governmental property of state.

So, yes, I will agree that Mormon and his son were royal characters written into the script but details of that were left out for reasons only Joseph Smith could properly explain. As I say, I think he was tired and careful not too say too much, he ended with the disclaimer of warning his readers that there were "imperfections" (Mormon 8:12, 9:31) in the record and that we should overlook those things. But I won't overlook those things and will not give Joseph Smith a pass in secretly writing himself into the script just so he can get his rocks off and stroke his big ego! (Pun intended, Kishy!)

[Shulem]

In another thread, I provided an interesting example of a serious hole in the script and how Smith had to scramble to rewrite the original story dictated to Martin Harris and renewed somewhat through the instrumentality of his new scribe, Oliver Cowdery. The first story (Book of Lehi) was given in the 116 lost pages and detailed an account of Lehi leaving Jerusalem. The second telling is the Book of Nephi in which we get the story told from another perspective. But in Nephi's account we learn nothing about the death of Sariah and are not informed if she even survived the voyage and made it to the promised land. In either case, the author disrespects the Nephite matriarch by failing to mention her death or any detail to commemorate her life following the voyage to the promised land. Shame on Nephi's Joseph Smith for neglecting to pay respect to mother!

But now we see another case in which a matriarch (Mother Mormon) is disrespected as if she never even existed! It is just too blatant not to notice and put the pieces together in showing the author did not want to bring mother into the situation. But the fact is, the author of the Book of Mormon knew full well about the first commandment with promise:

Honor thy  father and thy mother, that thy days may be long upon the land which the Lord thy God giveth thee.

What did Mormon Jr., ever do to honor his own mother? Anything?

Not a GODDAMN thing! What we do get is excuses from Moroni to not criticize authors of a book that never existed prior to Joseph Smith's oral dictation:

Condemn me not because of mine imperfection, neither my father, because of his imperfection, neither them who have written before him; but rather give thanks unto God that he hath made manifest unto you our imperfections, that ye may learn to be more wise than we have been.

Indeed, imperfections of the author have been manifested to me (Shulem) and in that I am more wise!

And now YOU know.

[Shulem]

It seems inevitable the percentage of believing Mormons who accept the Book of Mormon as inspired fiction is going to increase as the years go on. This of course will require additional thought and explanation for the ideas outlined in this thread. It may even influence believers in inspired fiction to challenge the basis of that belief and begin to question the honest intentions of what Smith had in mind when he invented the stories. Thus, it goes without saying that this thread is not going to help sustain faith in Smith's work but show that his work was entirely based on fooling everyone, including his own family. A pious fraud, indeed.

How apologists will maneuver their way through these problems remains to be seen. But a fuse has been lit and the cat is out of the bag.

Good luck, apologists! You're gonna need it.

And, I do hope that after the BYP is done ponderizing he will make a video on the subject matter of this thread. Pick up the ball and run with it!

Touchdown!

Let Vogel kick the extra point

[Shulem]

Furthermore, the character of Mormon Jr., demonstrates how anxious he is to tell more about himself in ways we don't get from the rest of the characters of the Book of Mormon. Nephi never said how old he was or the ages of his brothers. Nephi said jack about his mother's passing in which we don't even know if she made it to the promised land. Characters are introduced throughout the book without revealing their ages until we get to Mormon Joseph Smith and his imaginary plates. Why should the readers be informed that he was 10 and 11 years old when dealing with Ammaron? Why?

Mormon, like Joseph Smith, was full of himself. We are told he was 15 when he saw the Lord. Why are we given an age? Why not just mention that he was in his youth? Doesn't it seem rather fishy that we are hand fed Mormon's age as being 15? But then it gets worse because Mormon goes on to talk about age 24 in which he would process and translate plates as if he was Joseph Smith.

Folks, all of this is not normal. The accounting of Mormon revealing FOUR ages into the text are nothing more than red flags that point squarely at Joseph Smith saying more than he should have. The character of Mormon was being played by an actor, Joseph Smith.

It's all so obvious, wouldn't you say?