Church previously denied a John Taylor revelation on polygamy now admits it

[sock puppet]

The Mormon Prophet claims to be the only person on earth through whom God speaks. So when John Taylor recorded that revelation about polygamy, that was (according to Mormons) God speaking, and all his Apostle colleagues at the time decided they knew best and ignored it. So of even the Apostles don't quite buy that when the Prophet speaks it's actually God, then why should anyone else? Nelson himself announced a 'revelation' and then embarrassingly reversed it a few months later.

In order to show Christianity, or even the world, that Mormonism was actually what it claims to be - the only Church with a direct line to God, the only Church with an actual Prophet, then it would show consistently high morale behaviour - institutionally. It would show that it had additional knowledge and guidance about future world events and worldly things that the people of the world do not yet know. It fails to meet those criteria. In fact, draw up any list of 'hallmarks of a religious institution that was led by God' and the SLC LDS Church will fail the test.

The Mormon Apostles (and Prophets) have proven unreliable in their pretended roles.

[MG 2.0]

As you look at the church and its teachings I would simply say that it might be well to take a balanced approach. Primary sources should be the primary source of information in my opinion. That is, the Book of Mormon...what is actually between the covers from beginning to end. The Bible, of course. Sections in the Doctrine and Covenants...and not JUST Section 132. The writings of the prophets found in the Conference Reports. Articles of Faith by James Talmage. Jesus the Christ by James Talmage. Joseph Smith's own story. The Joseph Smith Papers. There are other primary sources that are close to the actual 'heartbeat' of the Restoration and the core doctrines of salvation/exaltation.

Relying on second hand or third hand sourcing...and God forbid, message boards...to get your information and/or have an experience with the Spirit of God is a fool's errand.

My opinion, anyway. Other's will disagree.

If you are seeing the CofJCofLDS as being on par with Scientology, you haven't given the church ANYWHERE near a fair shot.

Attend a few Sacrament Meetings. Meet the members. Talk to a leader or two. Attend Gospel Doctrine class at an LDS church on any given Sunday.

Determine, experientially, whether or not we are REALLY are as cooky as Scientologists. If you rely on folks such as those you interact with here you are receiving a terribly jaundiced view of the church, its doctrines, and its members.

Regards,
MG

Hmmm, on that basis MG, you must have; met some scientologists, talked to a few scientology leaders, attended some scientology meetings, and participated in some auditing sessions. Otherwise YOUR assertion that Scientology and Mormonism aren't equally cookie fails YOUR OWN criteria for making that assessment and giving Scientology a fair shot.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and state that I think you haven't done those things. You do not practice what you preach.

I mentioned earlier that I had watched a number of documentaries on Scientology. That is the extent of my 'experience' with Scientology. Nothing more, nothing less.

Regards,
MG

[Mag’ladroth]

I’m new to interacting with LDS as they were until recently, content being peculiar but the more aggressive they get and the more of their documents I read, the less I am convinced that this isn’t just some giant 19th century joke like Scientology.

As you look at the church and its teachings I would simply say that it might be well to take a balanced approach. Primary sources should be the primary source of information in my opinion. That is, the Book of Mormon...what is actually between the covers from beginning to end. The Bible, of course. Sections in the Doctrine and Covenants...and not JUST Section 132. The writings of the prophets found in the Conference Reports. Articles of Faith by James Talmage. Jesus the Christ by James Talmage. Joseph Smith's own story. The Joseph Smith Papers. There are other primary sources that are close to the actual 'heartbeat' of the Restoration and the core doctrines of salvation/exaltation.

Relying on second hand or third hand sourcing...and God forbid, message boards...to get your information and/or have an experience with the Spirit of God is a fool's errand.

My opinion, anyway. Other's will disagree.

If you are seeing the CofJCofLDS as being on par with Scientology, you haven't given the church ANYWHERE near a fair shot.

Attend a few Sacrament Meetings. Meet the members. Talk to a leader or two. Attend Gospel Doctrine class at an LDS church on any given Sunday.

Determine, experientially, whether or not we are REALLY are as cooky as Scientologists. If you rely on folks such as those you interact with here you are receiving a terribly jaundiced view of the church, its doctrines, and its members.

Regards,
MG

Simply looking into the Book of Mormon is enough to get me to distrust Mormonism. Not to mention every other ancillary doctrine and attempted defense of them by Neo-Orthodox Mormon apologists such as Ostler and Hansen or more mainstream defenses of Mormonism by FAIR, when systematized, create irreconcilable contradictions within Mormonism.

The Book of Mormon is proclaimed by past prophets to be “the most correct book on Earth” (not according to Ostler or Hansen but that’s a different can of worms). Yet I have no manuscript provenance in this alleged “Reformed Egyptian” to review, no other texts written in “Reformed Egyptian”, no golden plates, nothing but the contradictory words of an alleged prophet and his fellow travelers with numerous conflicts of interest. Not to mention the lack of any historical evidence of anything in it or scientific evidence of it. Let’s not even discuss the anachronisms in it too. These claims and defenses of them of course are retconned the moment they become untenable.

In contrast, the Bible has the Dead Sea scrolls, the LXX, the MT, the New Testament manuscripts in Greek to include Syriac, some Latin, and including codices from later centuries as well as archeological and historic data. I can go touch Hittite tombs. I can trace textual variants and find out what caused them and with great accuracy and pick a reading I think the evidence supports. I can go see the site of the Temple Mount destroyed in 70AD by the Romans.

I can’t go find swords or armor or even skeletal remains from a great battle at a giant hill in New York. I’m told I can't see a magical GPS rock that guided Lehi. Im told I can’t see the giant ships that carried these Jews from Babylonian exile to America. In short I’m told “Just trust us God said we’re the only true church. But also we totally aren’t the only true church when we need money from the National Association of Evangelicals.”

[malkie]

Hmmm, on that basis MG, you must have; met some scientologists, talked to a few scientology leaders, attended some scientology meetings, and participated in some auditing sessions. Otherwise YOUR assertion that Scientology and Mormonism aren't equally cookie fails YOUR OWN criteria for making that assessment and giving Scientology a fair shot.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and state that I think you haven't done those things. You do not practice what you preach.

I mentioned earlier that I had watched a number of documentaries on Scientology. That is the extent of my 'experience' with Scientology. Nothing more, nothing less.

Regards,
MG

Talking about driving in Utah, ...

[I Have Questions]

Hmmm, on that basis MG, you must have; met some scientologists, talked to a few scientology leaders, attended some scientology meetings, and participated in some auditing sessions. Otherwise YOUR assertion that Scientology and Mormonism aren't equally cookie fails YOUR OWN criteria for making that assessment and giving Scientology a fair shot.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and state that I think you haven't done those things. You do not practice what you preach.

I mentioned earlier that I had watched a number of documentaries on Scientology. That is the extent of my 'experience' with Scientology. Nothing more, nothing less.

Regards,
MG

So you fail your own advice. What did you call what you’ve done to assess Scientology…hang on I’ll check…oh yes, “a fool’s errand”.

You cannot say that Scientology and The SLC LDS Church aren’t comparable bed fellows, because you haven’t checked both out the way you advised Mag’ladroth to check both out (before suggesting he was a fool for not doing so).

You don’t practice what you preach.

[sock puppet]

Can't give up on something that never was.

Hubris. To think that you are the most powerful thing in the universe.

Regards,
MG

What does Ol Nelly or Wendy Watson have to do with this?

[Moksha]

If given the order to polygamize, I think only 52 % of LDS women would be willing to welcome LDS women into their marriage, or else abandon their husbands and enter into a new polygamous coven.

Nearly half (48%) would opt for a less cult-like and more mainstream support group.

[MG 2.0]

As you look at the church and its teachings I would simply say that it might be well to take a balanced approach. Primary sources should be the primary source of information in my opinion. That is, the Book of Mormon...what is actually between the covers from beginning to end. The Bible, of course. Sections in the Doctrine and Covenants...and not JUST Section 132. The writings of the prophets found in the Conference Reports. Articles of Faith by James Talmage. Jesus the Christ by James Talmage. Joseph Smith's own story. The Joseph Smith Papers. There are other primary sources that are close to the actual 'heartbeat' of the Restoration and the core doctrines of salvation/exaltation.

Relying on second hand or third hand sourcing...and God forbid, message boards...to get your information and/or have an experience with the Spirit of God is a fool's errand.

My opinion, anyway. Other's will disagree.

If you are seeing the CofJCofLDS as being on par with Scientology, you haven't given the church ANYWHERE near a fair shot.

Attend a few Sacrament Meetings. Meet the members. Talk to a leader or two. Attend Gospel Doctrine class at an LDS church on any given Sunday.

Determine, experientially, whether or not we are REALLY are as cooky as Scientologists. If you rely on folks such as those you interact with here you are receiving a terribly jaundiced view of the church, its doctrines, and its members.

Regards,
MG

Simply looking into the Book of Mormon is enough to get me to distrust Mormonism. Not to mention every other ancillary doctrine and attempted defense of them by Neo-Orthodox Mormon apologists such as Ostler and Hansen or more mainstream defenses of Mormonism by FAIR, when systematized, create irreconcilable contradictions within Mormonism.

The Book of Mormon is proclaimed by past prophets to be “the most correct book on Earth” (not according to Ostler or Hansen but that’s a different can of worms). Yet I have no manuscript provenance in this alleged “Reformed Egyptian” to review, no other texts written in “Reformed Egyptian”, no golden plates, nothing but the contradictory words of an alleged prophet and his fellow travelers with numerous conflicts of interest. Not to mention the lack of any historical evidence of anything in it or scientific evidence of it. Let’s not even discuss the anachronisms in it too. These claims and defenses of them of course are retconned the moment they become untenable.

In contrast, the Bible has the Dead Sea scrolls, the LXX, the MT, the New Testament manuscripts in Greek to include Syriac, some Latin, and including codices from later centuries as well as archeological and historic data. I can go touch Hittite tombs. I can trace textual variants and find out what caused them and with great accuracy and pick a reading I think the evidence supports. I can go see the site of the Temple Mount destroyed in 70AD by the Romans.

I can’t go find swords or armor or even skeletal remains from a great battle at a giant hill in New York. I’m told I can't see a magical GPS rock that guided Lehi. Im told I can’t see the giant ships that carried these Jews from Babylonian exile to America. In short I’m told “Just trust us God said we’re the only true church. But also we totally aren’t the only true church when we need money from the National Association of Evangelicals.”

External evidences are few and far between for the Book of Mormon. There are some interesting corollaries, but not slam dunks. My intellectual interest in 'evidences' for the Book of Mormon rely more on internal evidences that I find quite interesting. But even at that, it is a witness of the Book of Mormon through the Spirit that the Book of Mormon has its roots/basis in revelation from God remains the primary source.

Regards,
MG

[MG 2.0]

I mentioned earlier that I had watched a number of documentaries on Scientology. That is the extent of my 'experience' with Scientology. Nothing more, nothing less.

Regards,
MG

So you fail your own advice.

No, I have not studied Scientology to the extent that I have Mormonism. But I've seen enough that, for me, I can see Scientology as being a load of crock.

And I'm gonna stick to it. Would you like to change my mind and show me some evidence...any evidence...that might convince me that Scientology is from God?

Regards,
MG

[I Have Questions]

So you fail your own advice.

No, I have not studied Scientology to the extent that I have Mormonism. But I've seen enough that, for me, I can see Scientology as being a load of crock.

And I'm gonna stick to it. Would you like to change my mind and show me some evidence...any evidence...that might convince me that Scientology is from God?

Regards,
MG

Here is what you said to Mag’ladroth… “ Relying on second hand or third hand sourcing...and God forbid, message boards...to get your information and/or have an experience with the Spirit of God is a fool's errand.”

In order for you to make a proper assessment that Scientology is not from a supernatural deity you need to (according to you) talk to a few scientology leaders, attend some scientology meetings, and participate in some auditing sessions.

Don’t see the double standard? Can you acknowledge that you are preaching something that you’re not prepared to practice?