Josephine Sessions

[_tagriffy]

Thank you for the link to your essay on Environmental Theory. Surprisingly perhaps, I can agree in large part with what you wrote, although I see the discussion as a lot of effort to demonstrate something that many would find self evident after a cursory look at the situation.

On the other hand, if your purpose was specifically to convince the faithful, then I think the essay works.

Having read your essay, the question that comes to mind is whether or not you consider yourself a faithful Mormon.

Actually, my purpose wasn't necessarily meant to convince the faithful. It was meant more to proclaim a civil divorce from the apologetics surrounding the historicity debate. That is why I tried to be even-handed as possible. For example, for every point I made, I made sure to note where a person could find counterarguments. I was also very careful to state certain arguments as softly as possible. Though I personally feel it is improbable we will ever find archaeological evidence proving the Book of Mormon, I made sure I didn't a priori exclude the possibility. If the faithful are persuaded by the argument, great; if not, then hopefully my further studies will still be of use to them on some level.

At the time I wrote it, I intended the essay to be a beginning point for deeper studies of the Book of Mormon, perhaps expanding into a full-blown commentary. If I put in a lot of effort to demonstrate something others find self-evident, it was because I'm establishing an interpretive paradigm. Think of biblical commentaries where the introduction alone could run a hundred pages or more.

Of course I consider myself faithful Mormon.

[_honorentheos]

Hi tagriffy,

I really appreciated your response. I do have a follow up question.

....the neo-Orthodox view that Scripture only becomes Scripture when one reads the text is very appealing to me.... Specific canons are for specific communities, not an a priori restriction on an individual.

When I first read your comment I nodded and moved on. I came back to it after reading yours and DrW's discussion above and decided I hadn't paid enough attention the first time.

In the above, you make two intreguing comments about scripture: First, that the act of reading creates the meaning that in turn creates Scripture out of a text. And second, that canons are for specific communities, but should not be said to have a priori import on an individual.

I don't follow what you mean by canons being for specific communities given your first point and that scripture can not place a priori restrictions on a person. I would argue that for a community to assign value to a body of work to be able to call it scriptural canon is exactly the mechanism that creates restrictions on individuals. And given this comes from the community to the individual reading scripture, it must have some initial priming of the individual that creates the communal canon. The individual may choose to differ from the community following their reading of the so call scripture based on their experience with it. But otherwise, I don't follow. Perhaps you could expand on your thoughts to clarify the community/individual/scriptural canon relationship?

[_tagriffy]

Hi tagriffy,

I really appreciated your response. I do have a follow up question.

....the neo-Orthodox view that Scripture only becomes Scripture when one reads the text is very appealing to me.... Specific canons are for specific communities, not an a priori restriction on an individual.

When I first read your comment I nodded and moved on. I came back to it after reading yours and DrW's discussion above and decided I hadn't paid enough attention the first time.

In the above, you make two intreguing comments about scripture: First, that the act of reading creates the meaning that in turn creates Scripture out of a text. And second, that canons are for specific communities, but should not be said to have a priori import on an individual.

I don't follow what you mean by canons being for specific communities given your first point and that scripture can not place a priori restrictions on a person. I would argue that for a community to assign value to a body of work to be able to call it scriptural canon is exactly the mechanism that creates restrictions on individuals. And given this comes from the community to the individual reading scripture, it must have some initial priming of the individual that creates the communal canon. The individual may choose to differ from the community following their reading of the so call scripture based on their experience with it. But otherwise, I don't follow. Perhaps you could expand on your thoughts to clarify the community/individual/scriptural canon relationship?

Thank you for your follow-up. To be perfectly frank, after I wrote the last sentence of that post, I realized I didn't know where I wanted to take my thought. I hoped that further discussion would help me clarify my thoughts.

I had something specific in mind. In "Christian Scholarship and the Book of Mormon," (https://www.sunstonemagazine.com/pdf/103-74-81.pdf) Todd Compton wrote he was reading Wilford Woodruff's journals and regarded them as scripture. His comment was in defense of Signature Books for publishing the diaries, and as far as I know, he never expanded on that thought. I assume that means he heard God's voice through them. As he read them, they became scripture for him. I would also assume that Woodruff's diaries as scripture does not in any way detract the canonical status of the Standard Works. I'm speculating too much here, but that is an illustration of my point.

I guess what I'm trying to say (Please ask more questions!) is that an individual need not be bound solely by the canon of his or her community.

[_Bazooka]

I guess what I'm trying to say (Please ask more questions!) is that an individual need not be bound solely by the canon of his or her community.

Do you think that Mormonism teaches, encourages members to be bound by what is contained within the canon and what the Apostles teach from the pulpit of General Conference?

[_tagriffy]

I guess what I'm trying to say (Please ask more questions!) is that an individual need not be bound solely by the canon of his or her community.

Do you think that Mormonism teaches, encourages members to be bound by what is contained within the canon and what the Apostles teach from the pulpit of General Conference?

That is certainly what the LDS Church is doing. Mormonism teaches that all truth, no matter the source, is part of the gospel.

[_Bazooka]

I guess what I'm trying to say (Please ask more questions!) is that an individual need not be bound solely by the canon of his or her community.

Do you think that Mormonism teaches, encourages members to be bound by what is contained within the canon and what the Apostles teach from the pulpit of General Conference?

That is certainly what the LDS Church is doing. Mormonism teaches that all truth, no matter the source, is part of the gospel.

Really? I thought Mormonism teaches that it is they (Mormonism) alone that has the full truth and no other source(s) need be consulted. I'd like to see something official that says members should research non official sources to find additional truth.

[_tagriffy]

Well, there is D&C 88:118, "seek ye diligently and teach one another words of wisdom; yeas, seek ye out of the best books words of wisdom; seek learning, even by study and by faith." The Church may sometimes forget this, but Mormonism is more than just the Church.

[_Bazooka]

Well, there is D&C 88:118, "seek ye diligently and teach one another words of wisdom; yeas, seek ye out of the best books words of wisdom; seek learning, even by study and by faith." The Church may sometimes forget this, but Mormonism is more than just the Church.

You sound like Elder Poelman, and he got censured for such heretic chatter as "the Church is not The Gospel".

[_grindael]

Tagriffy,

Compton may have regarded Woodruff's Journals as scripture, because in them he refers to himself as a "Prophetic Historian":

This is the last day of 1861 which has past and gone and borne its report to heaven of the deeds of all Nations and men. This year has brought to pass much of the fulfillment of the predictions of the Ancient and Modern Prophets of God. See this Journal Jan 1st 1861. I there declaired as a Prophetic Historian that this year would be the most distressing year America Ever saw since they were an independant Nation. Time has proven it so.
(Wilford Woodruff's Journal, Vol. 5, p. 615, December 31, 1861.

[_grindael]

Woodruff's Journals pose many problems ... Take for example his reference to January 1, 1861:

This is the last day of 1860 which Ends this important & momentious year, which has been looked forward to by thousands for many years as a period which would date the Commencement of great & mighty Changes in the Earth, Changes which would greatly Effet the interest & welfare of all Nations under Heaven. Now what are the facts in the Case as far as they have Come to the knowledge of the Historian. They are these:

The whole European World have appeared inspired to spend millions & labor with all their might to build Navies & Equipt armies & prepare For a mighty struggle & deadly Conflict with Each others. All Italy has risen up in the magesty of her streng[th]s under her great leader Garabaldi and flung off the galling Napolitan yoke and formed an Elective Monarchy Receiving Victor Emanuel as their king. England & France has made both war & peace with the Chineese Empire while they have both been preparing there armies & Navies for a Bloody struggle at home.

But the United States of America is the spot whare 1860 markes the Commencement of a new Erea in [p.528] the History of that Government & people. It is [in] the midst of this Government whare the God of Heaven has set up his kingdom in the Latter Days. He sent An angel to this people thirty years ago raised up a prophet Called & ordained him to preach the gospel of Christ & Esstablish his Church & kingdom in the midst of the people.

Joseph the prophet of God was Faithful to his Calling, esstablished the Church of Christ, was filled with revelation & prophesy declaired the word of God unto the people told them what would Come to pass in there midst the wars and Judgments of God that awaited them because of there wickedness and as Jesus told the Jews the Fate & Calamities that awaited the Jewish Nation So Joseph Smith the Prophet of God told the people of the United States Government what awaited them & there final Destiny as a Nation because of there wickedness & abominations & because they would shed the Blood of Prophets & Saints. He said in 1832, 28 years ago that South Carolinia would rise up in rebelion and that war would Commence at that place & that the Southern States would arise up in rebelion against the Northern States & the Northern States against the Southern States & that war would be poured out upon all Nations which would End in the death & misery of many Souls & because of these things or as the prophet has said the people of the United States have put to death the prophet Joseph the Patriarchs Apostle & many Saints and driven the Church of Christ from place to place for about thirty years and Finally have driven them into the wilderness even into these vallies of the Mountain and the Lord told us "to plead at the feet of the Judges Governors & Presidets of the United States & if they Heed us not and do not redress us of our wrongs (then the Lord says) I will arise out of my hiding place & in my fury I will vex the Nation and I will Cut off those wicked & unjust Stewards and appoint them there portions with Hipocritts & unbelievers.

1860 has laid the foundation for the fulfillment of these things. During this year the Abolitionest of Republicans of the Northern States Elected their [p.529] President and Vice President and this has been taken as a pretext and the Southern States are rising up in rebelion against the Northern States are holding Conventions & preparing to Cecede from the Union as Joseph Smith said they would. South Carolinia Ceceded from the Union on the 20 Dec 1860 and others are preparing to follow their example. This has caused a great Convultion throughout the United States. All Banking & monied institutions are suspending specie payment and the wheels of Government are begining to be Cloged. Alarm & Confusion is spreading throughout the whole land. The Lord is withdrawing his spirit from the Nation and they are begining to be filled with madness towards Each other and the Southern States are arming & preparing for A Deadly Conflict against the Northern States. And whom the Lord wants to destroy he first makes mad and the people are being inspired with madness to such a degree that they are ready to devour each other.

The foundation has been laid during the year 1860 To break up & annihilate the American Government and the scenes which will follow in quick succession will be terrible & horrible in their detail. This Nation is guilty of sheding the Blood of the Lords anointed, of his Prophets & Saints and the Lord Almighty has decreed their destruction. The Lord has Commenced a Controversy with the American Government and Nation in 1860 and he will never cease untill they are destroyed from under heaven, and the Kingdom of God Esstablished upon their ruins. Let the Gentiles upon this land prepare to meet their God. (Wilford Woodruff's Journal, Vol. 5, p. 527-529)