DiscussMormonism.com

Informant wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 28, 2022 4:00 am

KevinSim wrote: Informant, how did you come to the conclusion that we cannot know anything, that we cannot know truth, or that nothing can be proven?

I don’t know for sure. I jump to certain conclusions based on available evidence, which could change at any time.

That is a good, truthful, and honest answer.

Informant wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 28, 2022 4:00 am

KevinSim wrote:Informant, how did you come to the conclusion that we cannot know anything, that we cannot know truth, or that nothing can be proven?

I don’t know for sure. I jump to certain conclusions based on available evidence, which could change at any time.

So as far as we know it's possible to know things, to know truth, and to prove things. In fact, one thing that I know is that we cannot know that we cannot know anything. That's a little indirect, but it's still true.

KevinSim wrote: Rene Descartes gave what was in his time a pretty persuasive argument for concluding that he was. More recently philosophers have poked holes in Descartes' alleged proof, but I still think Descartes had something. I think that if each of us think about it a little bit, one thing each can know is that s/he exists.

I agree that I know for certain that I am something that is able to question its own existence. I know that I am a thinking thing.

I don’t know anything else absolutely.

But this thread has gone way off the rails. What were you all talking about?

Informant wrote: ↑

Sun Nov 27, 2022 11:25 pm

I am not derailing. Persia was part of Indo-Europe.

Yes! That’s what I was saying.

Informant wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 28, 2022 6:23 am

KevinSim wrote: Rene Descartes gave what was in his time a pretty persuasive argument for concluding that he was. More recently philosophers have poked holes in Descartes' alleged proof, but I still think Descartes had something. I think that if each of us think about it a little bit, one thing each can know is that s/he exists.

I agree that I know for certain that I am something that is able to question its own existence. I know that I am a thinking thing.

I don’t know anything else absolutely.

But this thread has gone way off the rails. What were you all talking about?

What weren't they all talking about?

msnobody wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 28, 2022 3:25 am

We can know when we are born from above (born again), and God sends the Holy Spirit to indwell us.

MsNobody, how can we know that that that indwells us, that you assume is the Holy Spirit, is actually the Holy Spirit?

KevinSim wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 28, 2022 4:39 pm

msnobody wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 28, 2022 3:25 am

We can know when we are born from above (born again), and God sends the Holy Spirit to indwell us.

MsNobody, how can we know that that that indwells us, that you assume is the Holy Spirit, is actually the Holy Spirit?

Well done for concatenating three "that"s!

I can't help wondering if msnobody has at least as much grounds for her assumption as you have for many of yours, including your assumption that your god exists and speaks to you.

eta: "exists and"

Informant wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 28, 2022 6:23 am

But this thread has gone way off the rails. What were you all talking about?

We were talking about whether Christianity explains how we can know that it tells the truth about God. Informant, you seem to be saying that it doesn't explain that, perhaps that it can't explain that. That would mean that if we go on the assumption that God exists, the possibility exists that everybody in Christianity has a set of beliefs about God that God doesn't want them to have. Can God be happy with that state of Christianity's ignorance?

msnobody wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 28, 2022 3:50 am

All I can say is read 1 John chapters 1-5. Read it as a child.
https://www.esv.org/1+John+1/ it describes what I’m saying.

Thanks for pointing me to these five chapters, MsNobody! I'll give it my best shot. I'll try to read them without skepticism, though for someone who's heard a lot of criticism of works like that, that's not a trivial job.

Informant wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 28, 2022 3:27 am

Right. Faith. We cannot know anything.

Is the idea that we cannot know anything one of the things we cannot know? If we cannot know it, then the possibility exists that we can know something.