Calling Thayne, Can I Help With NOM?

[_Res Ipsa]

However, I would not consider this a "support" forum. Yes, I agree with Jersey Girl that folks here are terrific about lending support when a member is in crisis. But outside of that, I would not describe the general tone here as supportive. In fact, I'd describe lots of the tone here as confrontational and antagonistic. For LDS folks out there who are being put through an emotional wringer because they are struggling to find a way to reconcile their personal beliefs with what they think Mormonism demands, having folks like tear into them for not being good Mormons or tear into them for not simply leaving, this place may not be what they want or need.

That doesn't make this place bad. It is simply a recognition that different people have different needs and that one size doesn't necessarily fit all.

Very good summation, Res Ipsa. If NOMs temporarily arrange a NOM thread for support here, I think it would work -temporarily. There is a need for shorter run support, and a NOM board is definitely a benefit in that respect.

But I agree the general tone here is challenging- something I find intellectually stimulating, and something which, as a no-longer-Mormon, in the long run I find very helpful. I can definitely relate to that in between stage, however, and I empathize with that more than people like mg can possibly realize.

It's unfortunate mg insists on forcing this point that he considers 'disagreement" here to be confrontational so that he can justify his personal position; I would hate to think there is someone out there missing out on companionship and support because they believe his nonsense.

I'm more pessimistic, unless by temporarily you mean a few hours at best.

[_mentalgymnast]

Perhaps MG is merely pointing out the intangible differences. Point taken (x 4).

I think NOMs get a bad wrap from the traditional label that implies seeking the middle way. Healthy discussions with banter lift everyone and make discussion boards more lively. Thanks for the Welcome!

I'm glad that this is a place you will feel comfortable participating in.

I suppose you weren't around over at NOM board back in its infancy? It was fun. I enjoyed my time there. I went by 'runnerguy'.

Regards,
MG

[_mentalgymnast]

... I would not describe the general tone here as supportive. In fact, I'd describe lots of the tone here as confrontational and antagonistic. For LDS folks out there who are being put through an emotional wringer because they are struggling to find a way to reconcile their personal beliefs with what they think Mormonism demands, having folks like tear into them for not being good Mormons or tear into them for not simply leaving, this place may not be what they want or need.

That's basically where I'm coming from.

That doesn't make this place bad. It is simply a recognition that different people have different needs and that one size doesn't necessarily fit all.

That wraps it up in a nutshell. If what I said didn't come across saying basically the same thing...now that all these pages have drifted by...then let me repeat, Res Ipsa has put my thoughts into a nice, tidy, little nutshell.

Regards,
MG

[_mentalgymnast]

Very good summation, Res Ipsa. If NOMs temporarily arrange a NOM thread for support here, I think it would work -temporarily.

Possibly.

There is a need for shorter run support, and a NOM board is definitely a benefit in that respect.

Agreed.

But I agree the general tone here is challenging...

That was/is my concern for some of those folks. They need support...not ridicule and/or confrontation.

...something I find intellectually stimulating,...

Which is fine for you.

...and something which, as a no-longer-Mormon, in the long run I find very helpful.

Which is fine for you.

I can definitely relate to that in between stage, however, and I empathize with that more than people like mg can possibly realize.

I think you may be mistaken on this point. But that's OK. We can agree to disagree.

It's unfortunate mg insists on forcing this point that he considers 'disagreement" here to be confrontational so that he can justify his personal position...

I think that those that want/need to come over to this forum will do so. I'm not trying to stop those folks from doing so.

I would hate to think there is someone out there missing out on companionship and support because they believe his nonsense.

If you go back to the earlier stages of the thread I think you will find that I was stating my thoughts/opinions. I know you see that as being confrontational with your own thoughts/opinions. Thus, nonsense, in your opinion. That's OK. We can agree to disagree.

Regards,
MG

[_grindael]

Most of us who've migrated over here wouldn't be considered fragile bunnies or middle way seekers. We are simply married to Mormons who have no interest in checking the church's diaper for poo poo even when it's obvious the pampers are full and the moisture absorbing gelatin is starting to get all over the place.

NOM provided the community where we could all laugh and cry about the absurdity of waking up in this twilight zone. Where penguins could lie down with Tapirs while Kermit the Frog serenaded us with wisdom and Gay depeche mode loving cowboys would stop in to say hi and prop up the weak and feeble.

It's complicated living with a Mormon when all you want to do is walk away from burlap walls, blessed donuts, and funny underwear. NOM is/was the tightrope we walk. Sure it would probably be easier to just step off and move on, but when you have hope and can see the other side, it provides an illusion that maybe someday things will normalize or the church will implode and becoming Amish is a better alternative.

I think this is freaking courageous and admirable. Thanks for that.

[_Can of Worms]

I would just like to have my community back. A lot of my friends ended up here but a lot did not, probably some of the ones who need NOM the most. Also, I think NOM is a better place for people in faith transition. They are better able to find support there and express their concerns and issues without being pounced on by over eager debaters. NOM is more about how to live with still-believing loved ones after your beliefs have changed, for whatever reason. It's also a place to blow off a little steam when those people aren't so sympathetic to those of us who feel the need to graduate from our former mindset in one way or another.

Thanks Hagoth - well said.

[_grindael]

I think NOMs get a bad wrap from the traditional label that implies seeking the middle way. Healthy discussions with banter lift everyone and make discussion boards more lively. Thanks for the Welcome!

What I have a problem with is Apologists that hide behind the NOM label. They are nothing like you. You are a breath of fresh air. I don't think you'll have any problems here. I sure hope you stick around.

[_Lemmie]

Lemmie, how long were you married? Was the divorce mainly due to church differences?

I'm curiously interested in the divorce stories. We started marriage therapy recently and I'm finding the process to be slow, confusing, and have determined there isn't a guaranteed outcome. I'm ok with the ambiguity, but the emotions of humanity make it exhausting. All of this turmoil because I stopped believing Joseph Smith was a prophet. Weird, eh?

separated after 7 years, not so much church differences as the specific behavior that came out of those differences. the beginning of the end occurred when we were visiting my parents, and my spouse went to high priest meeting with my father, where he described himself as a rocket moving through space with a goal, and me as the satellite going around him. He then asked, what do you do when you can't control your satellite(!!!!!!!) and it is taking off on its own in directions that don't support the path of your rocket?

My father told this to my mother, and my mother told me, and neither of them seemed to have a problem with it. That shook me to my core, and as I looked at my mother's life, an exceptionally intelligent and talented woman who gave up everything because she accepted the church's position that she was the wrong gender to succeed in those areas, I was horrified to realize I was on that same path. Not only that, but I now had a baby daughter who would likely follow the same path if I did not make a change.

Fast forward many decades, to a point after an incredibly painful and financially devastating divorce, years of shunning by my family due to leaving the church, and many, many, MANY years of therapy to undo the brainwashing. I now have a daughter in Vet school who would laugh if a Mormon told her what is expected of women, and two teenage sons who've grown up with a mother who worked their entire lifetimes and is a Professor at an Ivy League school. My boys are interested in cute girls, BUT!! they also only like girls who are smart and have ambition; they also assume these girls are equals, in every possible way. Why? Because that's what they are used to, and that's what they see as completely normal.

I've completely changed the path of these three children who are the end result of multiple generations of Mormons, and I consider that to be the single greatest accomplishment of my life.

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

Lemmie,

Wow. What a story. You changed everything for the better. I'm sure the challenges were incredibly difficult, but it looks like you literally altered the reality your kids would've had to live for something limitless. Good job.

- Doc

[_Lemmie]

I'm more pessimistic, unless by temporarily you mean a few hours at best.

You're tough one, Res Ipsa, I'll give you that!!! Point taken.

So... Temporary means hours, all you newbies. After that, it's conversation, exchange of ideas, new friendships and lively debate for all!!!