Maklelan - A romantic incentive

[_Maksutov]

It appears to me that there may be people on the board motivated by envy and resentment regarding Maklelan's demonstrated authority and competence. I value him although I often disagree. I see no reason to keep cross examining him and expecting him to defend his personal life. If I were him I would have told folks to f*** off a long time ago.

You're too kind to Mr. Mak. When he sticks to his core competence, he does have a lot of value to add. When he strays from that competence to the point of calling out members and downplaying their life experiences, he abuses his alleged authority and we all know what the Lard says, "amen to the alleged authority of that man". At that point, he's no better than a monkey throwing s***. When I get s*** thrown at me, I throw s*** back.

Monkeys throwing crap is a pretty good description of the human condition and many products of culture. Glad you recognize it for what it is. But I stand by my statement.

[_Spektical]

Only read to mid-way through the second page, so forgive me if this thought has already been expressed.

Living life as a faithful Mormon is most certainly a step up from that of a drug addict. If one had to choose between the two, the choice is clear. That said, life as a faithful Mormon is not necessarily better than any other responsible mode of living, and some would argue it is decidedly more limiting.

Maklelan has a conversion story that makes him a rockstar among Mormons. He probably would not find that type of celebrity elsewhere. I think anyone in his position would find it difficult to leave the church.

I have a Jewish friend who got baptized when he was 16, went on a mission, temple marriage, etc. He was fawned over after his conversion. Church members would gush over him and tell him how great an example he was for his family and all his friends. He had left the church and was divorced by his late 20s. He acknowledges that the church gave him some structure and discipline that was useful for him as a teenager, but he laments the two years of his life he wasted in Ohio and the horrible experience that was his divorce. He's very intelligent and majoring in philosophy at Berkeley made his apostasy inevitable. He wishes that he had left the church right after high school, as that would have been the most opportune time for him.

Mormonism is a boat that gets you to a destination, of sorts. Once there, however, the boat is no longer needed. Stay in it and you become stagnant and miserable. That is, provided one realizes the boat is not the destination. If one is ignorant to that reality, it may not be as hard to stay in the boat. (And look at that, the residual "Mormon" in me is spouting off a freakin' analogy. Ah well...)

[_maklelan]

Mak on the other hand tries to force his world view on others. His statements are claimed as fact and that us critics are universally wrong. He then tries to hide behind his alleged employment status as insider knowledge that has no details.

I must be lying, because an employee of a large global organization would never be expected to keep certain details of his employment confidential.

quick example - Mak states "meet the Mormons will do well in attendance". We analyze the data to suggest, yes, among the Mormon audience, it did well.

I didn't realize the breakdown of Mormon to non-Mormon attendance had been released to the public. Could you link me to it, please? I know you wouldn't just be referring to the naked assumptions being proliferated all over this message board. No one could mistake that for actual data analysis.

Among nationwide American standards on how a movie gets rated for attendance, it failed.

I don't recall saying that would be my rubric, but I can tell you for a fact that the movie actually did better than our department and the Brethren were hoping. Also, highest grossing film in the country per theater is a failure?

But Mak's statement of fact Trump's all else.

Not all else, but certainly uninformed assumption and dogmatism.

That attitude leaves no room for discussion. He shows no respect to opposing view points and deserves no respect in return.

I show respect all the time to opposing view points. It's part of my education and my career. I don't show respect to uninformed attempts to condescend to and judge me.

[_maklelan]

Only read to mid-way through the second page, so forgive me if this thought has already been expressed.

Living life as a faithful Mormon is most certainly a step up from that of a drug addict. If one had to choose between the two, the choice is clear. That said, life as a faithful Mormon is not necessarily better than any other responsible mode of living, and some would argue it is decidedly more limiting.

Maklelan has a conversion story that makes him a rockstar among Mormons. He probably would not find that type of celebrity elsewhere. I think anyone in his position would find it difficult to leave the church.

Right, I do it for the accolades. My psyche is that simplistic and one-dimensional. I thought no one would ever be able to uncover my secret shame.

I have a Jewish friend who got baptized when he was 16, went on a mission, temple marriage, etc. He was fawned over after his conversion. Church members would gush over him and tell him how great an example he was for his family and all his friends. He had left the church and was divorced by his late 20s. He acknowledges that the church gave him some structure and discipline that was useful for him as a teenager, but he laments the two years of his life he wasted in Ohio and the horrible experience that was his divorce. He's very intelligent and majoring in philosophy at Berkeley made his apostasy inevitable. He wishes that he had left the church right after high school, as that would have been the most opportune time for him.

Mormonism is a boat that gets you to a destination, of sorts. Once there, however, the boat is no longer needed. Stay in it and you become stagnant and miserable. That is, provided one realizes the boat is not the destination. If one is ignorant to that reality, it may not be as hard to stay in the boat. (And look at that, the residual "Mormon" in me is spouting off a freakin' analogy. Ah well...)

Glad that we finally have the input of the person who's personal experiences and anecdotes inform and give meaning to those of everyone else. We've long waited for this day. Educate us.

[_Spektical]

I don't really agree with how this thread was made so specifically about you. However, I think it's fine to discuss the possible motives of people staying in the church, even when they are cognizant of the numerous historical, scientific, and philosophical issues that undermine the church's truth claims. I am about the same age as you, and I think my own apostasy may never have happened had I gotten married in college and stayed in Utah. It's hard to say. I was initially exposed to "anti-mormon" literature and criticisms when I was 18-19, but I wasn't in a mindset or environment that really allowed me to appreciate the full import of those criticisms. That didn't happen until about ten years later, after I had a college and legal education under my belt and, more importantly, substantially different circumstances than those I was in as a young man living in Provo, about to go on a mission.