Senior free labour provider dies whilst mowing a church lawn

[Gadianton]

I'm sorry, Hound, but the topic is God, and not the guild of woke Mormon terraformers. MG is free to admit at any time that he is an atheist as I am, and he speaks only of a powerful local being that "created" him and allows him air to breathe, makes his life here hunky dory, and promises a fantastic eternity of consumption and mediocrity after he dies.

[Hound of Heaven]

I'm sorry, Hound, but the topic is God, and not the guild of woke Mormon terraformers. MG is free to admit at any time that he is an atheist as I am, and he speaks only of a powerful local being that "created" him and allows him air to breathe, makes his life here hunky dory, and promises a fantastic eternity of consumption and mediocrity after he dies.

Mormonism fundamentally revolves around the concepts of eternal progression and the aspiration to become terraformers. I don't recall the specifics of the talk or the year, but I do remember driving to the church with my sons to watch what I believe was conference, when Spencer Kimball mentioned that everyone watching the conference at that moment has the potential to not only become like God, but also to receive guidance from their Heavenly Father on how to create worlds for themselves, once they become a God. He expressed his certainty about this truth, citing the vastness of the universe as evidence.

There are numerous examples, including the one I just mentioned, that clearly demonstrate that Mormons believe eternal progression is akin to terraforming. The whole belief system or gospel revolves around specific laws and forms of authority that direct individuals on their earthly journey, enabling them to evolve into a terraformer as they advance toward divinity!

You speak as though you have never been a Mormon! I welcome your feedback on any mistakes I may have made. The subject you mention is God. Did I not just articulate the concept of the god of Mormonism?

[Everybody Wang Chung]

I don't recall the specifics of the talk or the year, but I do remember driving to the church with my sons to watch what I believe was conference, when Spencer Kimball mentioned that everyone watching the conference at that moment has the potential to not only become like God, but also to receive guidance from their Heavenly Father on how to create worlds for themselves, once they become a God. He expressed his certainty about this truth, citing the vastness of the universe as evidence.

HoH,

In all fairness, SWK said some weird crap.

[Hound of Heaven]

I don't recall the specifics of the talk or the year, but I do remember driving to the church with my sons to watch what I believe was conference, when Spencer Kimball mentioned that everyone watching the conference at that moment has the potential to not only become like God, but also to receive guidance from their Heavenly Father on how to create worlds for themselves, once they become a God. He expressed his certainty about this truth, citing the vastness of the universe as evidence.

HoH,

In all fairness, SWK said some weird crap.

OK, I agree with you, but am I correct in saying that the God of Mormonism differs significantly from the God of modern-day Christianity? Just last year, an apostle suggested that during eternal progression, future "Gods" will be able to organize universes, provided individuals are patient and take the necessary steps to attain the experience of whatever level of godhood involves organizing universes.

[Gadianton]

You speak as though you have never been a Mormon! I welcome your feedback on any mistakes I may have made. The subject you mention is God. Did I not just articulate the concept of the god of Mormonism?

Your first mistake was saying that you drove your sons to a conference where President Kimball spoke. This did not happen. When president Kimball was the prophet, you were just a kid, probably around my age.

The only way you could charge me with not understanding the Mormon position, is if you assert that I do not recognize that Mormons refer to their "gods" as "Gods," or the terraformer of this world simply as "God". That would be odd since you yourself are also using lower case. I fully understand that Mormons don't know anything about theology and refer to the contingent being who put them on this earth as "God". The Mormon "God" didn't even create MG, as intelligence is neither created nor made, neither can it be.

However, just because Mormons have this confusing position, doesn't mean they aren't subject to the problems having such a confusing position creates for them. I am free to point out that their "God" really isn't "God". And this isn't just a matter of their beliefs vs. Christianity. Your AI might ask, who is to say that the Christian version is right? Well, unfortunately, if you're going to describe your God in terms of the omnis as Mormons do and their scriptures do, they are subject to criticism if their labels don't actually fit.

Here's the real problem, Hound. Suppose we accept that "God" is a contingent being who created us and that we also can become Gods, this is the proper use of the term and Christianity is wrong. fantastic. The only problem is, we can still ask, who created God and why? Mormons might say God also had a father. They are less likely to say that now. But they are kicking the can down the road rather than explaining anything. It's an endless loop: "line 10: go to line 10". The first computer program that you learned to write in 7th grade CS.

When Mormonism says it can explain "why you are here", it's within this super limited scope. Oh wow, we didn't know that we lived in heaven before the earth and agreed to a test. But here's what the missionaries don't understand. Asking "Why am I here?" is usually taken in an ultimate sense. If aliens created us as slave labor, that isn't answering the question, "why am I here?" in the ultimate sense we want to know. That just adds to the confusion or makes life even more pointless. If aliens created us to be slaves, then we want to know, how did the aliens come to be, what is their purpose? Because to fully understand our purpose in the grand scheme, we must understand why our contingent creators were created also.

[Hound of Heaven]

You speak as though you have never been a Mormon! I welcome your feedback on any mistakes I may have made. The subject you mention is God. Did I not just articulate the concept of the god of Mormonism?

Your first mistake was saying that you drove your sons to a conference where President Kimball spoke. This did not happen. When president Kimball was the prophet, you were just a kid, probably around my age.

The only way you could charge me with not understanding the Mormon position, is if you assert that I do not recognize that Mormons refer to their "gods" as "Gods," or the terraformer of this world simply as "God". That would be odd since you yourself are also using lower case. I fully understand that Mormons don't know anything about theology and refer to the contingent being who put them on this earth as "God". The Mormon "God" didn't even create MG, as intelligence is neither created nor made, neither can it be.

However, just because Mormons have this confusing position, doesn't mean they aren't subject to the problems having such a confusing position creates for them. I am free to point out that their "God" really isn't "God". And this isn't just a matter of their beliefs vs. Christianity. Your AI might ask, who is to say that the Christian version is right? Well, unfortunately, if you're going to describe your God in terms of the omnis as Mormons do and their scriptures do, they are subject to criticism if their labels don't actually fit.

Here's the real problem, Hound. Suppose we accept that "God" is a contingent being who created us and that we also can become Gods, this is the proper use of the term and Christianity is wrong. fantastic. The only problem is, we can still ask, who created God and why? Mormons might say God also had a father. They are less likely to say that now. But they are kicking the can down the road rather than explaining anything. It's an endless loop: "line 10: go to line 10". The first computer program that you learned to write in 7th grade CS.

When Mormonism says it can explain "why you are here", it's within this super limited scope. Oh wow, we didn't know that we lived in heaven before the earth and agreed to a test. But here's what the missionaries don't understand. Asking "Why am I here?" is usually taken in an ultimate sense. If aliens created us as slave labor, that isn't answering the question, "why am I here?" in the ultimate sense we want to know. That just adds to the confusion or makes life even more pointless. If aliens created us to be slaves, then we want to know, how did the aliens come to be, what is their purpose? Because to fully understand our purpose in the grand scheme, we must understand why our contingent creators were created also.

Your attempts to argue with me and claim I'm lying about my age only reinforce my point: there isn't a single progressive on this board capable of having a cordial conversation with someone outside your progressive cult.

I drove my sons to the conference, and I recall it vividly as it was the first time we could actually watch the talk in the chapel thanks to the installation of a satellite dish which I helped install.

Your continued discussion only reinforces my belief that your understanding of Mormonism is limited to what you've gleaned from John Dehlin or RFM. It seems evident that you have a strong aversion to Mormons and the idea of individuals freely practicing a religion that doesn't align with your views. Your discussions about religion suggest a struggle to navigate the complexities of moving away from faith towards atheism or agnosticism.

It's understandable that you may not have matured spiritually after leaving Mormonism; many individuals who exit high-demand religions struggle to navigate their spiritual growth when transitioning to atheism or agnosticism. The definitive method to distinguish a genuine atheist from a resentful ex-cult member like yourself is to observe whether the atheist lacks the insight to realize that, despite identifying as an atheist, they perceive themselves as incapable of spiritual growth. An authentic mature atheist recognizes that personal development and spiritual growth are vital for fully appreciating life until its end.

Mormons like MG2.0, my Mormon family members, and your Mormon family members are under no obligation to provide explanations to you. Their interpretation of God is precisely that—it is theirs. They are not obligated to make you feel comfortable with it, even if you believe they owe you an explanation. You mean nothing to them; you're merely a resentful individual who takes pleasure in criticizing those who disregard your lack of belief.

At one point in my life, I possessed a similar unpleasant attitude, but I was fortunate enough to rise above the negativity and emerge on the other side, allowing me to truly enjoy life now. I hope for the best for you, but after reading your post, it seems you may struggle to recognize that you are your own biggest obstacle.

[Hound of Heaven]

Apparently, you think you have the intellectual capacity to make "that decision" I'm talking about.

You've done nearly the same. You've thrown God in the trash for the most part, and only drag out God as the architect of really vague notions, and then refuse to clarify what you mean. As you did this time. I have to say, given the fact you've complained so much about being called names recently, it's interesting that you refused to respond to my questions. You should explain what you mean by a personal God giving Sock Puppet the very air that he needs for survival. You should explain how your views in recent threads are compatible with the idea of a personal God when you appear to attribute most events in this world as "random" (mother nature).

Very much like DCP. I could never get him to respond to questions. Instead, he'd spend most of his time fishing for offense.

The fact that you, Marcus, and others on the board choose to target the few Mormons or conservative Christians here only reinforces my belief that many of the progressives here have not grown at all since leaving the church!

The manner in which you all decided to address the Mormons on this board stands in stark contrast to how you ought to have acted, free from the influence of fear, anger, and hatred. You had the opportunity to embrace them, teach them, and befriend them, yet you opted to belittle them.

In that fleeting moment, when you crafted an insult to make them feel unworthy, you derived a sense of gratification from your words. It was as if, by insulting them, you were also taking a jab at the Mormons who had wronged you. Once again, demonstrating that the maturity level of the atheist on this board has been hindered by the animosity that has consumed their lives.

[huckelberry]

Gadianton,

,,adding I guess I should have copied Gadiantons post it is already on the preceeding page. I am thinking of remarks following let's review what it means to be God.

, I can thank you for a thoughtful reply from which I am separate in multiple ways.

I should start noting that an atheist is not without meaning in life. In fact life is suffused with meaning for all to participate in. Perhaps some people may reject important parts seeking negativity and injury. There may even be fragments of meaning left there as all creation is saturated with meaning.

I consider myself as a believer in God and Christisn basics but do not quite read that as you would prefer. To open I might note that nothing is random in a purely naturalistic world or with a creator. I see the determining aspects of the mud flow to be material cause and effect. I see God as the source of the principals that make cause and effect happen.

I do not accept your reading of the ontological argument. I see greatest as what is absolutely necessary and foundational. It does not have to be good at all In the sense you ask. I do believe all things work for good for those who love God because that potential lies in all life with God's renewal. It is a promise from God for the future. This does not mean or require particular events to have some personal optimal quality. Some events are bad .

[Morley]

I do believe all things work for good for those who love God because that potential lies in all life with God's renewal.

Huck, if there were a God, I don't think she would care whether you loved her or not.

Ha! I still recall this poem that I memorized as a child:


Abou Ben Adhem

By Leigh Hunt


Abou Ben Adhem (may his tribe increase!)
Awoke one night from a deep dream of peace,
And saw, within the moonlight in his room,
Making it rich, like a lily in bloom,
An angel writing in a book of gold:—
Exceeding peace had made Ben Adhem bold,
And to the presence in the room he said,
"What writest thou?"—The vision raised its head,
And with a look made of all sweet accord,
Answered, "The names of those who love the Lord."
"And is mine one?" said Abou. "Nay, not so,"
Replied the angel. Abou spoke again, more low,
But cheerly still; and said, "I pray thee, then,
Write me as one who loves his fellow men."

The angel wrote, and vanished. The next night
It came again with a great wakening light,
And showed the names whom God had blest,
And lo! Ben Adhem's name led all the rest.



It must have impacted my beliefs.

[huckelberry]

I do believe all things work for good for those who love God because that potential lies in all life with God's renewal.

Huck, if there were a God, I don't think she would care whether you loved her or not.

Ha! I still recall this poem that I memorized in childhood:


Abou Ben Adhem

By Leigh Hunt


Abou Ben Adhem (may his tribe increase!)
Awoke one night from a deep dream of peace,
And saw, within the moonlight in his room,
Making it rich, and like a lily in bloom,
An angel writing in a book of gold:—
Exceeding peace had made Ben Adhem bold,
And to the presence in the room he said,
"What writest thou?"—The vision raised its head,
And with a look made of all sweet accord,
Answered, "The names of those who love the Lord."
"And is mine one?" said Abou. "Nay, not so,"
Replied the angel. Abou spoke again, more low,
But cheerly still; and said, "I pray thee, then,
Write me as one that loves his fellow men."

The angel wrote, and vanished. The next night
It came again with a great wakening light,
And showed the names whom God had blest,
And lo! Ben Adhem's name led all the rest.



It must have impacted my beliefs.

Morley. I think the only real meaning to loving God and the only way we can is to love the value which is in life which is centered on loving others.

I am clumsy enough or is it naturally self absorbed that relatively secondary meaning teaches me. I may learn from a walk contemplating nature. I hope my love of other people has grown