Epic Mormonism Live on Rosebud Accusations

[drumdude]

That's why it's necessary for A to portrait herself as weak, powerless, infantilized, unable to say no to big powerful scary John Dehlin. She has to minimize their affair, and goes as far on her website as to say it wasn't an affair at all.

And then any evidence you find in her documents that it was a real relationship, it was consensual, and she did want sex, well A has an answer for that too. You see after a decade of therapy and forensic storytelling she now realized that back then she didn't understand anything, but now with the power of years and years of dwelling on it she understands that it was actually sexual abuse, grooming, and John Dehlin is probably a pedophile to boot who spends his days furiously masturbating about the idea of power differentials and forcing young women into compromising situations. Getting them fired at the end is the only way he is able to climax, as he suffers from intense erectile dysfunction.

If you can believe all that...well... then I suppose your name is James Patterson!

[Moksha]

It's a relief to agree after this long and tiring thread.

Not yet, let it get to page 200 before jury foreperson Kishkumen calls the question. Before the penalty phase of the verdict is considered, did everybody see the last episode of Seinfeld?

[Kishkumen]

People knew 9 years ago that firing a subordinate as a result of a sexual relationship with their superior was wrong.

I never said people didn’t.

Yes, they should have known it was wrong 9 years ago. Saying that this assessment requires the invocation of an absolute, timeless standard is absurd.

If only the situation was as simple as your reductive representation of it.

Who said it was?

I’m not being literal. You do understand that, I hope.

That is an extremely partial explanation of why policies like this are in place. Ethical behavior is not simply a survival technique for a company.

Moving from one policy regime to another is, in business terms, primarily about the health of the company. New policy is not applied retroactively.

[consiglieri]

Consiglieri, I don't know if you're reading this monster of a thread anymore, but I just got done catching up on your podcast and I wanted to compliment you on doing a good job laying out the evidence and treating the subject with compassion and respect. Rosebud's allegations really never sat well with me. She forever seemed to be making vague and amorphous allegations against Dehlin (and derailing dozens of threads that had nothing to do with the subject in the process) but was painfully vague on specifics. Now we know why.

Ms. Jack!

Yes! Still reading this monster thread!

So wonderful to see you again! You have always been one of my very favorite posters! I hope you are happy and well.

Thank you so much for the kind words. It means so much to me, especially coming from you.

All the Best!

—Consiglieri

[MsJack]

I wonder if they fear that even the slightest admission of guilt would tip Rosebud over into truly unhinged behavior? Given her obsession, it's not out of the realm of possibility.

The one thing Open Stories Foundation could do that hasn't been done is have an independent third-party organization investigate their 2012-2013 firing of Rosebud and assess whether they concur that Open Stories Foundation did nothing wrong.

I've been watching a number of evangelical sex abuse scandals unfold these past few years. Independent third-party investigations are the way forward.

(By "independent third-party" I mean an organization with credibility in victim advocacy, not some attorney on the dole.)

Here's an example of one organization:

https://www.netgrace.org/independent-investigations

Open Stories Foundation's 2018 internal investigation of their own conduct is meaningless.

[MsJack]

Ms. Jack!

Yes! Still reading this monster thread!

So wonderful to see you again! You have always been one of my very favorite posters! I hope you are happy and well.

Thank you so much for the kind words. It means so much to me, especially coming from you.

All the Best!

—Consiglieri

I am great Consig! Husband, house, kids, pets, jiu-jitsu, cool job, and about to start work on my PhD. Living the dream.

I'm glad your podcast is going well.

[Lem]

I wonder if they fear that even the slightest admission of guilt would tip Rosebud over into truly unhinged behavior? Given her obsession, it's not out of the realm of possibility.

The one thing Open Stories Foundation could do that hasn't been done is have an independent third-party organization investigate their 2012-2013 firing of Rosebud and assess whether they concur that Open Stories Foundation did nothing wrong.

I've been watching a number of evangelical sex abuse scandals unfold these past few years. Independent third-party investigations are the way forward.

(By "independent third-party" I mean an organization with credibility in victim advocacy, not some attorney on the dole.)

Here's an example of one organization:

https://www.netgrace.org/independent-investigations

Open Stories Foundation's 2018 internal investigation of their own conduct is meaningless.

This is the single best practical suggestion to come out of this entire thread. Excellent point, MsJack.

[drumdude]

This is the single best practical suggestion to come out of this entire thread. Excellent point, MsJack.

Agreed. "We investigated ourselves and found no wrongdoing" never inspires confidence.

[Kishkumen]

The one thing Open Stories Foundation could do that hasn't been done is have an independent third-party organization investigate their 2012-2013 firing of Rosebud and assess whether they concur that Open Stories Foundation did nothing wrong.

I've been watching a number of evangelical sex abuse scandals unfold these past few years. Independent third-party investigations are the way forward.

(By "independent third-party" I mean an organization with credibility in victim advocacy, not some attorney on the dole.)

Here's an example of one organization:

https://www.netgrace.org/independent-investigations

Open Stories Foundation's 2018 internal investigation of their own conduct is meaningless.

That would be one route they could go. Of course, at this point, with the board having changed over entirely minus John Dehlin, any finding that said the old board did the wrong thing would amount to a new board telling an old board they messed up, and the utility of this is questionable. Furthermore, a new board did adopt a sexual harassment policy as a result, so it is clear that they understood there was a problem that needed to be addressed.

The question that keeps popping up again and again is: what is this all about right now? And I think the answer is pretty clear: Rosebud is following through on her threats of October 2012, and others who dislike John Dehlin for various reasons are using this for their own purposes.

It can't be to obtain legal redress, since that isn't going to happen. If I am mistaken about that, and I could be, please let me know.

It can't be to show that Open Stories Foundation ignored the situation and never did anything about it (like institute a sexual harassment policy), because they did. The test of the effectiveness of that policy will be found in events after it was instituted, not before.

No, this is about a revenge and a power struggle within the woke ex-Mo community.

[pistolero]

I wonder if they fear that even the slightest admission of guilt would tip Rosebud over into truly unhinged behavior? Given her obsession, it's not out of the realm of possibility.

The one thing Open Stories Foundation could do that hasn't been done is have an independent third-party organization investigate their 2012-2013 firing of Rosebud and assess whether they concur that Open Stories Foundation did nothing wrong.

I've been watching a number of evangelical sex abuse scandals unfold these past few years. Independent third-party investigations are the way forward.

(By "independent third-party" I mean an organization with credibility in victim advocacy, not some attorney on the dole.)

Here's an example of one organization:

https://www.netgrace.org/independent-investigations

Open Stories Foundation's 2018 internal investigation of their own conduct is meaningless.

I would like have to have seen something along these lines for when it seems Joanna, and which she alludes to in her mea culpa message, didn't feel up to the task. When lawyers start to get involved, it often ends messy, at least with independant investigation one would hopefully get new eyes and a non-partial view of the situation.

I would question an independent investigation where one of the parties at least wouldn't be obliged to hand over all evidence. I presume JD would though since this would be coniditioned on his continued employment. Rosebud has already left so not constrained at all.