5 reasons to suspect Jesus never existed...

[_Jersey Girl]

I didn't read it that way at all, but okay.

How did you read it? I'm really curious.

I read it as sarcasm.

[_Jersey Girl]

Your desire to believe outweighs your desire for the truth.

Couldn't that be considered true for atheists/skeptics as well? I'm thinking about that first item in the OP and the assertions attached to it.

What about atheists/skeptics who take those assertions at face value and never investigate such claims beyond passively receiving the list as...gospel?

[_Quasimodo]

Tell me a bit more about this 'latter day work' that came about through Charles Manson.

Regards,
MG

Charles Manson taught that he was a Prophet for the Son of Man.

Charles Manson believed that the blacks , or very dark brown Africans , were
the sons of Ham , one of Noah's sons , whom Noah cursed to be the ancestor
of slaves.

Charles Manson taught that he was the Second Coming of Jesus Christ, opening the seven seals mentioned in the book of Revelation.

Charles Manson taught the he was on earth to bring about the Apocalypse.

Some of his works consisted of gaining a devout following, creating a community separate from normal society, changing the way his followers viewed marriage and sexuality (he had many sexual partners in a community setting), developing a socialistic system where all assets became community property, convincing his followers to act on his belief that he would bring about the Apocalypse and creating a community in the wilderness for his disciples to live.

What did Joseph Smith do?

[_mentalgymnast]

Opening the door? I don't care who opens a door, doesn't open a door, why they do, why they don't, or if I'm the one opening the door.

I've been opening doors for myself all my life. No, really. Have you?

I've been opening car doors and building doors for my wife for for around thirty-five years. I just consider it to be a perk for my wife.

I even open the door for men sometimes.

Speaking up in reference to what one might consider to be inappropriate language to use to a woman isn't a bad thing, in my opinion. But be it as it may...

Regards,
MG

[_Jersey Girl]

I'm apologize in advance, but I can't let this pass.

IHaveAQuestion, surely you could have found a better word to use than bitchy. Bitchy, like bastard, while not always used to talk derogatorily about women and illegitimate children, are still sufficiently connected to those concepts that use of those two terms is always in very bad taste in my opinion.

Why are you referring to children as "illegitimate"?

[_Jersey Girl]

I've been opening car doors and building doors for my wife for for around thirty-five years. I just consider it to be a perk for my wife.

I even open the door for men sometimes.

Speaking up in reference to what one might consider to be inappropriate language to use to a woman isn't a bad thing, in my opinion. But be it as it may...

Regards,
MG

You missed the point by several miles.

Two posters used what might be considered "gender slurs" in their posts to each other. The only one taken to task was the male poster.

The point you missed is that of hypocrisy.

[_Jersey Girl]

Can you say what you see in Paul's writings that make you think he's familiar with Q?

Here are a few examples that may show a relationship between Paul and Q (or perhaps some other source, as some of these also have parallels in Mark):

Matt 5:32 -- But I say to you that anyone who divorces his wife, except on the ground of unchastity, causes her to commit adultery; and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery.

Luke 16:18 -- Anyone who divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery, and whoever marries a woman divorced from her husband commits adultery.

Paul may have this in mind when he attributes the following to Jesus:

I Cor 7:10-11 -- To the married I give this command—not I but the Lord—that the wife should not separate from her husband (but if she does separate, let her remain unmarried or else be reconciled to her husband), and that the husband should not divorce his wife.

***
Jesus speaking to those being sent out to preach:

Matt 8:8-10 -- Take no gold, or silver, or copper in your belts, no bag for your journey, or two tunics, or sandals, or a staff; for laborers deserve their food.

Luke 10: 4 & 7 -- Carry no purse, no bag, no sandals ... Remain in the same house, eating and drinking whatever they provide, for the laborer deserves to be paid.

Paul may be thinking of this saying here:

I Cor 9:14 -- In the same way, the Lord commanded that those who proclaim the gospel should get their living by the gospel.

***
Matt 17:20 -- For truly I tell you, if you have faith the size of a mustard seed, you will say to this mountain, ‘Move from here to there,’ and it will move ...

Matt 21:21 -- if you say to this mountain, ‘Be lifted up and thrown into the sea,’ it will be done.

Luke 17:6 -- If you had faith the size of a mustard seed, you could say to this mulberry tree, ‘Be uprooted and planted in the sea,’ and it would obey you.

Paul may be alluding to this Jesus saying here:

I Cor 13:2 -- And if I have prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains,

***
There are other examples as well. Anyway, it's all fairly weak sauce in terms of the historical Jesus argument. The only reason I mentioned Q at all was to serve as a reminder that even though the Gospels are not eyewitness accounts and were written several decades after the events they depict, the Gospel writers evidently used earlier sources that also seem to predate Paul (whose writings, of course, are earlier than the Gospels).

Thank you!

[_mentalgymnast]

Tell me a bit more about this 'latter day work' that came about through Charles Manson.

Regards,
MG

1)...creat[ed] a community separate from normal society.

Does it still exist and what is its influence in the world for good? How large is that following and in how many countries?

John 15:16
You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you so that you might go and bear fruit--fruit that will last...

You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit and that your fruit should abide...

Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain...

...changing the way his followers viewed marriage and sexuality (he had many sexual partners in a community setting)

Does this 'work' remain and what has been its outcome?

...developing a socialistic system where all assets became community property...

How is this work or anything associated with it moving forward in the world today?

...convincing his followers to act on his belief that he would bring about the Apocalypse and creating a community in the wilderness for his disciples to live.

Again, where is that community and what is its influence for good in the world?

Matthew 7:16-21
By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? 17 Likewise, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.
21“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.

Regards,
MG

[_mentalgymnast]

You missed the point by several miles.

Two posters used what might be considered "gender slurs" in their posts to each other. The only one taken to task was the male poster.

The point you missed is that of hypocrisy.

I'll take you at that. To be honest, I barely breezed over the section of the thread where everyone was skirmishing. Like I said, if you're cool with the interchange that went back and forth...then I guess that's OK...with you.

Regards,
MG

[_mentalgymnast]

What did Joseph Smith do?

Well, without him we wouldn't be hassling over whether or not the true church is on the earth.

Or if we were, it would be some other guy that would be dissed.

Regards,
MG