Certain people can't ever get it right

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mentalgymnast
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Re: Certain people can't ever get it right

Post by mentalgymnast »

Bret Ripley wrote:
Mon Feb 01, 2021 8:41 pm
You don’t seem to read for comprehension ... You just don’t seem to ‘get it’ and I find that I have to repeat things...and you still don’t get it ... you sure seem to be challenged in some respects. May I go as far as to say...dumb? ...

We all have things that we’re dumb at. May I suggest you are honest with yourself, look inward, and see where your weaknesses are? When we fail to do so, in a certain respect, we just continue to get dumb and dumber.
Well, how about we just slap a big ol' QED on that.
Yes, it was Quite Easily Done. And something that needed to be said, in my opinion. We all have our dumb side, right? Unfortunately, I think there has been a dumbing down...a result of popular culture...that has led to people looking for the ‘quick fix’ or instant knowledge (google anyone?)...and often coming away with well, not a whole lot. Dumb and dumber.

Wisdom is at a premium nowadays, it seems.

Look around...you don’t have to look far.

People that actually think they’re close to knowing it all. Praise being given to google god and man made wisdom/learning rather than God, the source of all wisdom and knowledge.
Isaiah 50:11
Behold, all ye that kindle a fire, that compass yourselves about with sparks: walk in the light of your fire, and in the sparks that ye have kindled. This shall ye have of mine hand; ye shall lie down in sorrow.
Regards,
MG
mentalgymnast
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Re: Certain people can't ever get it right

Post by mentalgymnast »

honorentheos wrote:
Mon Feb 01, 2021 9:04 pm
I think you're a fraud, MG.
I wish it were possible to meet in real life. You might think otherwise. If you’re ever in Utah look me up. I’d love to visit with you.

Regards,
MG
Doctor CamNC4Me
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Re: Certain people can't ever get it right

Post by Doctor CamNC4Me »

You know, Lemmie, it’s as crazy to me that theists claim we couldn’t figure out why something is wrong without a priestcraft type telling them it’s so as is their insistence they’d be drug addled maniacs if they didn’t have these rules in the first place. We literally figured this stuff out in kindergarten when Bobby Jane stole our pet rock and we howled with grief and rage from the offense. When I surmised MG is actually a felt-brained muppet it’s because he can’t reason without a big ol’ metaphorical hand shoved up his ass forming thoughts and words.

- Doc
mentalgymnast
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Re: Certain people can't ever get it right

Post by mentalgymnast »

Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:
Mon Feb 01, 2021 9:26 pm
You know, Lemmie, it’s as crazy to me that theists claim we couldn’t figure out why something is wrong without a priestcraft type telling them it’s so as is their insistence they’d be drug addled maniacs if they didn’t have these rules in the first place. We literally figured this stuff out in kindergarten when Bobby Jane stole our pet rock and we howled with grief and rage from the offense. When I surmised MG is actually a felt-brained muppet it’s because he can’t reason without a big ol’ metaphorical hand shoved up his ass forming thoughts and words.

- Doc
Untrue. And you know what that makes it. :(

I read, “Everything I Needed To Know I Learned In Kindergarten” too. 😉

Just like you, I’ve learned a lot along the way without God. But I’m sure grateful for the brain He gave me. Last I heard, not from you of course, I’m not a bad thinker!

Regards,
MG
Lem
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Re: Certain people can't ever get it right

Post by Lem »

Bret Ripley wrote:
Mon Feb 01, 2021 8:41 pm
You don’t seem to read for comprehension ... You just don’t seem to ‘get it’ and I find that I have to repeat things...and you still don’t get it ... you sure seem to be challenged in some respects. May I go as far as to say...dumb? ...

We all have things that we’re dumb at. May I suggest you are honest with yourself, look inward, and see where your weaknesses are? When we fail to do so, in a certain respect, we just continue to get dumb and dumber.
Well, how about we just slap a big ol' QED on that.
:lol: Seconded. But who's going to tell him Stuart Smalley wants his mirror back? :D
Chap
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Re: Certain people can't ever get it right

Post by Chap »

Physics Guy wrote:
Mon Feb 01, 2021 7:25 pm
My understanding is that it is really not clear that hunter-gatherer societies have maintained ethical
standards comparable to average modern city-dwellers. There seems to be at least a large school of thought among researchers in the field that reckons murder was much more common in prehistoric groups than it is now even in really bad neighborhoods.

I think it’s also a good rule of thumb in history that if somebody introduced a law prohibiting something, it was because people were doing a lot of it. A society that went so far as to attribute a law against murder to a deity who personally wrote the commandment in stone was probably a society with a high murder rate.

Do legal prohibitions actually reduce the incidence of what they prohibit? That’s still a question today. But prohibiting something in law is at least doing something. Something’s probably better than nothing. On the whole I think I’d rather live in a society that had a law against murder than in one that did not.
Laws are things that are created by centralised states in which a single person or group has the monopoly of coercive power over everybody else. Basically - you want to live in my town with all your body parts still attached? Well, pay your taxes and don't do A, B, or C. If I catch you breaking those rules you will not live long enough to be sorry.

In some societies, such fierce utterances from the ruler do actually lead to a reduction in behaviours that the majority of people would prefer did not occur. In others, the subject population just lives in terror, and the ruler can do whatever he wants to you and your family. But it would be a great mistake to believe that if you live in a society where murderers, if caught, are severely punished, then you will be safer than if you had lived in a human group too small to have been blessed with rulers who have to be obeyed.

Consider that deeply Christian city, with very strict laws against murder, theft and so on - medieval London. Lots of churches, plenty of priests to preach the gospel, and all the rest. Must've been a good, safe place to live, where people were nice to each other? Hmmm

Mapping the Gruesome Murders of Medieval London
If you think London’s crime rate is cause for concern today, imagine what it was like in the 14th century. Back in the late Middle Ages, the city’s murder rate was 15 to 20 times what it is today, and you could be murdered for something as trivial as stealing a handful of wool, or for littering the street with eel skins.

These and other gruesome details emerge from a new map created by Cambridge University’s Violence Research Centre, which details 142 murders committed between 1300 and 1340 that are documented in nine coroners’ rolls that have survived to this day. The crimes are pinned to their exact positions on medieval London’s street plan, searchable by neighborhood, weapon type, and whether the venue was a private or public space. Together, it presents a fascinating glimpse into the violence and instability of life in a city with dangerous living conditions and precious little law enforcement.

Image

It’s not entirely surprising that London’s medieval murder rate was so high, given how heavily armed the population was. As the Violence Research Centre notes, most men carried weapons, typically knives and swords, with esoteric names such as the Trenchour and Misericorde. And arguments could still prove deadly in the absence of a blade. In just under a fifth of murders mentioned on the rolls, the victim was simply bashed to death with a stick.

This sounds grisly, but medieval weapons were actually less deadly than contemporary firearms. Only 32.4 percent of victims listed in the rolls are recorded as having died an instant death. Most of the victims lost their lives some time later, due to blood loss, internal injuries, or the filth and ignorance of medical care that made infections commonplace. Granting a glimpse of the poor living conditions is the case of a saddle tree maker who died three weeks after having his finger cut off in a fight. A relatively light-sounding wound, it seems likely that it slowly, torturously festered its way to becoming fatal.

Other murders suggest people were often already in such frail health that they were easily dispatched. Several people are recorded as dying after being “cuffed” around the head, a light-sounding blow whose fatal results suggest that either that the term was euphemistic or that the victims were already somewhat weak.

The profile that emerges of the average 14th-century-London murderer was also a little different. As today, killers were overwhelmingly male (92 percent of assailants in the records are men), but were not typically members of the marginal classes associated with contemporary criminality. In fact, only three beggars, one purse-cutter, and one sex worker feature in the register as perpetrators. Higher-status individuals feature more frequently, including knights and an astonishing total of 11 priests. Among the crimes recorded among the better-to-do are a priest who stabbed a gardener who caught him stealing apples, and an earl who stabbed a porter who dared to ask him to ride more carefully, after the earl came close to running down a woman with a young child.

The project contains more than these fascinating perspectives on late-medieval urban violence. It also gives tantalizing glimpses of human stories of greed, lust, and punishment.

There’s the chaplain Edmund of Breckles, for example, stabbed by John of Malton in a house more or less on the current site of The Gherkin. Malton stormed in and stabbed Breckles in the belly with a short knife, while the cleric was lying in bed with his concubine, Juliana Aunsel. Juliana, who later admitted complicity in the crime, fled with John to seek sanctuary in a nearby church, from which they were eventually coaxed. Faced with hanging, the two opted to be permanently exiled, traveling separately to the port of Dover, a journey that took John four days and Juliana five.

What became of them? And why did they murder Juliana’s lover if the crime could be so easily detected? These unanswered questions are sure to stick in one’s mind. The idea of this strange knot of grisly, bygone passion and murder taking place where a flashy skyscraper now stands only underlines how many sedimented layers of history are concealed by London modern face.
Maksutov:
That's the problem with this supernatural stuff, it doesn't really solve anything. It's a placeholder for ignorance.
Mayan Elephant:
Not only have I denounced the Big Lie, I have denounced the Big lie big lie.
mentalgymnast
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Re: Certain people can't ever get it right

Post by mentalgymnast »

Chap wrote:
Mon Feb 01, 2021 10:12 pm
Consider that deeply Christian city, with very strict laws against murder, theft and so on - medieval London. Lots of churches, plenty of priests to preach the gospel, and all the rest. Must've been a good, safe place to live, where people were nice to each other? Hmmm
19 For the natural man is an enemy to God, and has been from the fall of Adam, and will be, forever and ever, unless he yields to the enticings of the Holy Spirit, and putteth off the natural man and becometh a saint through the atonement of Christ the Lord, and becometh as a child, submissive, meek, humble, patient, full of love, willing to submit to all things which the Lord seeth fit to inflict upon him, even as a child doth submit to his father.
(Mosiah 3:19)

https://bookofmormonstudynotes.blog/201 ... osiah-319/

Something was missing from early old England there, jolly ol’chap. For one thing I’d imagine that the spirit of the gospel/Lord didn’t get around much to the common folk. Corrupt priests. Lack of availability to the word of God. Makes one wonder if the Holy Bible hadn’t made it all the way through a lot of this mess and become available to the common man what things would be like today. To my understanding the Bible and it’s teachings played a major role in the development of western values, and societies based upon the rule of law, justice, and mercy.

Regards,
MG
Morley
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Re: Certain people can't ever get it right

Post by Morley »

mentalgymnast wrote:
Mon Feb 01, 2021 5:43 pm
You didn’t come back with your questions. Are you not able to encapsulate your questions within a long post into one or two questions that you believe might cut to the chase? I’m willing to look at those. Shouldn’t be to hard to do that? Right?

I take issue with your belief that I am not able to explain myself. That is a rather binary statement you’re making. But of course, you know that...or do you?

If you don’t come back with your one or two consolidated questions then, as you said, be well and stay safe.
Unfortunately, I've fallen for your promises before, MG. I'm going to pass this time.


.
Lem
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Re: Certain people can't ever get it right

Post by Lem »

honorentheos wrote:
Mon Feb 01, 2021 9:04 pm

I think people can see his place in the history of religion as meaningful and still see him as unworthy of their trust. They can find intellectual pleasure in engaging the universe is Mormon thought that has grown out of the seeds he planted and have a "nuanced" view of his impact on the world while recognizing fully he was a liar and cheat, adulterer and narcissist. But when it comes to how I am willing to let Joseph Smith have influence over my life? That door is closed.
Definitely. I find the history interesting because it directly influenced my ancestors, and the paths of their lives, but continuing with the cult simply because we were born into it is something that thoughtful people can move beyond. It's not easy, but I get the sense there's a pretty solid generation of people doing just that, in an ethical, moral, and responsible way.
Doctor CamNC4Me
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Re: Certain people can't ever get it right

Post by Doctor CamNC4Me »

Chap,

Thanks for posting that link. In particular this sent me down a wiki rabbit:

“The project contains more than these fascinating perspectives on late-medieval urban violence. It also gives tantalizing glimpses of human stories of greed, lust, and punishment.

There’s the chaplain Edmund of Breckles, for example, stabbed by John of Malton in a house more or less on the current site of The Gherkin. Malton stormed in and stabbed Breckles in the belly with a short knife, while the cleric was lying in bed with his concubine, Juliana Aunsel. Juliana, who later admitted complicity in the crime, fled with John to seek sanctuary in a nearby church, from which they were eventually coaxed. Faced with hanging, the two opted to be permanently exiled, traveling separately to the port of Dover, a journey that took John four days and Juliana five.”

The Gherkin, by the way, is probably in my top 5 favorite modern architectural builds.

Image

- Doc
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