? for Ray A

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_Mister Scratch
_Emeritus
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Post by _Mister Scratch »

Ray A wrote:
Mister Scratch wrote:But I'm only one guy, Ray! Also, I don't "hate" Mormons. If I hated all Mormons, that would mean that I would have to hate myself, and much of my own family.... That doesn't make much sense at all, mate!


So is this the first indication that you are actually a Mormon? Well what you are doing is not "reforming" the Church, you are white-anting it. Give me my anti-Mormons up front. You are the type of Mormon who President Benson referred to as not wanting to take the Church to the world, but wanting to bring the world into the Church. Why don't you make out a list of all the reforms you want?
(emphasis added)

Wow... You know, Ray, this all sounds very familiar. And, of course, it should. Here is my post from just the other day!:

Mister Scratch wrote:---No priesthood for women
---Heavy insistence on "obedience"
---sexual guilt
---old and unresolved racist policies
---closely guarded finances
---strident anti-homosexuality
---etc., etc., etc.


Gee whiz, Ray! And you accuse me of poor reading comprehension! Imagine that! It just so happens that I also managed to somehow magically predict your tactic via the ETB quote! Dig this, also from pg. 9 of this very thread:

Mister Scratch wrote:The fact that you so intensely and aggressively desire to know tells me that I should keep it a secret. The truth is that I don't say because I prefer not to hear the same old, tired ad hominem attacks. Let me break it down for you:
---If I am a full-on member in good standing, you'll say: You are a traitor! We don't need 'ark steadiers'!
---If I am inactive, you'll say: You are a lazy slob and have no right to criticize!
---If I am an exmo, you'll say: You don't even pay tithing, and since you don't put in the work you have no right to criticize!
---If I am a nevermo, you'll say: You've never even been a member, you have no right to criticize!

See, Ray? It does not matter one iota what my membership status is. Your reply to me would be the same regardless. Or do you disagree? Why does the "mystery" upset you so much?


Ray A wrote: I'll be very interested to see that, because I suspect you don't even know specifically what you want.


I think, in fact, that it is *you* who doesn't know what he wants.
_Ray A

Post by _Ray A »

Mister Scratch wrote:Wow... You know, Ray, this all sounds very familiar. And, of course, it should. Here is my post from just the other day!:


---No priesthood for women
---Heavy insistence on "obedience"
---sexual guilt
---old and unresolved racist policies
---closely guarded finances
---strident anti-homosexuality
---etc., etc., etc.


I asked you to list your desired "reforms". I don't read every post on this board. Not even the mods can do that! So this was not a case of "poor comprehension", but simply not spending 24/7 following every post you do. See, there's a difference.

Thanks anyway for listing your desired reforms, but I think you're swimming upstream. Perhaps you should consider joining the Community of Christ? They have ALL of your desired list. You know, if I was Republican, and I saw that the Democrats had all the policies I liked, and I remained a Republican, I wouldn't blame them for viewing me suspiciously. You have listed which changes you want, fine, but now can I ask why? Especially when considering that the Community of Christ has ALL that you want!
_Jersey Girl
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Post by _Jersey Girl »

Ray,

Before I volunteer to get stuck in this hamster wheel with you again, riddle me this...how did I know Pahoran and Juliann's names prior to Scratch posting them?

Go ahead, take a random guess.

Jersey Girl
Failure is not falling down but refusing to get up.
Chinese Proverb
_Mister Scratch
_Emeritus
Posts: 5604
Joined: Sun Oct 29, 2006 8:13 pm

Post by _Mister Scratch »

Ray A wrote:Why did Scratch put the names up in the first place?


Honestly, Ray, I did not think there would be any harm in posting the names. I figured that the names were well-known, and that juliann, Pahoran and Co. would have no problem with it. It turns out that they were very, very angry about it, for reasons which remain unclear to me. Pahoran appeared on this board to rail against me for quite some time, only to react rather awkwardly to my very simply pointing out of the fact that his name had been removed a long time ago...

Because a person's name is accessible on the Internet does not mean they would approve of someone else posting their names, especially someone hostile to them!


If this is the "Golden Rule" for you, then you are going to have to chastise DCP, Bill Hamblin, David Bokovoy, Pahoran, juliann, and any number of MAD participants who routinely "name names" of people they are hostile towards.

Also, it needs to be pointed out that at certain times in the past, juliann, Pahoran, smac97 and others have sharply denounced and criticized others who wanted to remain anonymous. These MAD posters all boasted about their "bravery" at giving up their in real life names. But where has that bravery gone now?

Why does Scratch always have to be called on to post in good taste? Remember, he was putting these names up, and we still don't know HIS name. Now, I wonder how Scratch would feel if someone found out HIS real name and posted it? You see, this is the real problem with Scratch, as I have been saying, he wants and expects anonymity, yet he also wants the freedom to post full names and then attack those people.


That's not true. I am happy to just attack arguments. It just so happens that many of these folks post their in real life names as a kind of "badge of honor," DCP in particular. It is transparently obvious that he uses his real name because he knows it will earn him the adulation of TBMs.

Juliann does not use her full name when posting on boards, everyone knows that, and the fact that her full name is accessible on the FAIR website means nothing!


I disagree. If she genuinely wanted anonymity, she would have chosen a pseudonym. Instead, she wants to climb up the totem pole of apologetics, hence her use of her in real life real name. I would be willing to bet that she has long hoped that high-ranking apologists would see her posts on FAIR/MAD and say, "Wow! Who is this Wonder Woman!" She obviously views the FAIR/MAD board as a kind of stage, otherwise why would she flip out so much at being embarrassed by Beastie and Dartagnan? Why the need for the "hidden" Pundits Forum?

This is her preference, not to use her full name on forums. Ditto for Pahoran. It is this violation of personal preference that is at issue. Not whether names are accessible on some corner of the Internet. Many know Dr. Shades' real name, and I have respected his wish not to use his real name on the forums, and have never even used his first name. In fact anyone who doesn't know Shades' real name must be a newcomer to boards, since it's easily accessible on Z. Does that mean I can start a blog and reveal his real name, and do so in good conscience?


Let me remind you again, Ray: no unwanted in real life names appear on my blog. As soon as I was alerted to the fact that Pahoran and juliann took offense to the names being there, I took them down. While we are on this topic: are you aware of the fact that juliann personally approved of the Mr. Itchy blog? (Which, unlike my blog, allowed the in real life information to stand for weeks.)

You are defending Scratch for taking down the names. I am asking why they were put there in the first place?


Why were the Mr. Itchy names "put there in the first place"? Why was CKSalmon "outed" by Bill Hamblin "in the first place"? Why was DCP gossipmongering about Mike Quinn "in the first place"?

Some of you here don't seem to understand why there's a backlash against you. You are like a dog who attacks someone, and when he gets clobbered back wonders what he did wrong. If you launch missiles into another territory, expect some missiles to return.


Last time I checked, Mormonism is older than all of us. And in any case, your "You guys started it!" argument is awfully lame.

It's the same with RFM. In the name of "recovery" this site lambasts and constantly attacks Mormons, and when they are called on they say, "oh, we are hurting and need to express ourselves". "We are 'only' venting." "It's all because we need this therapy." Well, don't whine when you get a taste of your own medicine from Mormons, and don't expect them to forever remain silent. Enough is enough. People can only take so much.


I can take as good as I give, Ray.

Here's another question for you: How is RfM somehow "picking on Mormonism"? For the most part, those folks stay on their own little corner of cyberspace, "in the name of recovery." It is not as if they are sending missionaries out, door-to-door, in order to change the world as we know it....
_beastie
_Emeritus
Posts: 14216
Joined: Thu Nov 02, 2006 2:26 am

Post by _beastie »

I know, I know, jersey girl!!!!
We hate to seem like we don’t trust every nut with a story, but there’s evidence we can point to, and dance while shouting taunting phrases.

Penn & Teller

http://www.mormonmesoamerica.com
_Mister Scratch
_Emeritus
Posts: 5604
Joined: Sun Oct 29, 2006 8:13 pm

Post by _Mister Scratch »

Ray A wrote:
Mister Scratch wrote:Wow... You know, Ray, this all sounds very familiar. And, of course, it should. Here is my post from just the other day!:


---No priesthood for women
---Heavy insistence on "obedience"
---sexual guilt
---old and unresolved racist policies
---closely guarded finances
---strident anti-homosexuality
---etc., etc., etc.


I asked you to list your desired "reforms". I don't read every post on this board. Not even the mods can do that! So this was not a case of "poor comprehension", but simply not spending 24/7 following every post you do. See, there's a difference.

Thanks anyway for listing your desired reforms, but I think you're swimming upstream. Perhaps you should consider joining the Community of Christ? They have ALL of your desired list. You know, if I was Republican, and I saw that the Democrats had all the policies I liked, and I remained a Republican, I wouldn't blame them for viewing me suspiciously. You have listed which changes you want, fine, but now can I ask why? Especially when considering that the Community of Christ has ALL that you want!


For a very simply reason: I do not have Community of Christ blood running through my veins.
_Jersey Girl
_Emeritus
Posts: 34407
Joined: Wed Oct 25, 2006 1:16 am

Post by _Jersey Girl »

beastie wrote:I know, I know, jersey girl!!!!


Please put your hand down. It's Ray's turn to talk and your turn to listen.

:-P

(If I had a nickel for each time I've said that second phrase, I'd be flippin' rich)
Failure is not falling down but refusing to get up.
Chinese Proverb
_beastie
_Emeritus
Posts: 14216
Joined: Thu Nov 02, 2006 2:26 am

Post by _beastie »

Oh, well, time for bed anyway, party pooper.
We hate to seem like we don’t trust every nut with a story, but there’s evidence we can point to, and dance while shouting taunting phrases.

Penn & Teller

http://www.mormonmesoamerica.com
_Ray A

Post by _Ray A »

Jersey Girl wrote:Ray,

Before I volunteer to get stuck in this hamster wheel with you again, riddle me this...how did I know Pahoran and Juliann's names prior to Scratch posting them?

Go ahead, take a random guess.

Jersey Girl


You missed the whole point I was making. Absolutely amazing.
_Mister Scratch
_Emeritus
Posts: 5604
Joined: Sun Oct 29, 2006 8:13 pm

Post by _Mister Scratch »

Ray A wrote:
Jersey Girl wrote:Ray,

Before I volunteer to get stuck in this hamster wheel with you again, riddle me this...how did I know Pahoran and Juliann's names prior to Scratch posting them?

Go ahead, take a random guess.

Jersey Girl


You missed the whole point I was making. Absolutely amazing.


I don't think it's a matter of her missing your point, Ray. I think it is a matter of you making a stupid point to begin with.
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