What If: Deseret Comes into Being 1849

[_Bond...James Bond]

So Asbestosman, how do you think the creation of Deseret would have changed the Church, or the US History?

Bond

[_MormonMendacity]

PLEASE BELIEVE ME, I was not mocking you! I honestly meant what I said. The Orwellian aspect of the Deseret Alphabet had honestly never occurred to me, so when you mentioned it, it hit me like a ton of bricks. KUDOS for catching that angle!

Whew! The Orwellian reference made me wonder how crazy the idea was! (Not that it isn't a little bit out there anyway since there is no smoking gun.)

But to asbestosman's point, I think it more plausible that it was used to isolate if it was the only thing taught to immigrants who didn't speak English. It is incredibly easy to learn...if you already speak the language...but it isn't very useful in learning English, in my opinion. It is meaningless for learning English and I doubt that it would make transitioning to the Roman Alphabet any easier.

It's perhaps not terribly cunning...and no one after him cared about it except for you and me, asbestosman...but I think it would have been a great isolation tool if it had only caught on.

[_asbestosman]

So Asbestosman, how do you think the creation of Deseret would have changed the Church, or the US History?

I don't think it would have changed the Civil War. It may have weakened the early church by spreading it out too thin--or maybe not. Perhaps the only casinos in what is now Nevada would be on indian reservations. Deseret would probably have an advantage by having some ocean property by the Pacific.

Really, it's kinda hard for me to imagine the what if's. I was never very good at history. I was always more of a math/computer guy.

[_Bond...James Bond]

So Asbestosman, how do you think the creation of Deseret would have changed the Church, or the US History?

I don't think it would have changed the Civil War. It may have weakened the early church by spreading it out too thin--or maybe not. Perhaps the only casinos in what is now Nevada would be on indian reservations. Deseret would probably have an advantage by having some ocean property by the Pacific.

Really, it's kinda hard for me to imagine the what if's. I was never very good at history. I was always more of a math/computer guy.

Now that I think about it it might have sped up the Civil War year because of its breaking the balance in slave and free states (an important political debate). The Civil War was inevitable.

Bond

[_asbestosman]

Now that I think about it it might have sped up the Civil War year because of its breaking the balance in slave and free states (an important political debate). The Civil War was inevitable.

I thought the west was largely neutral on the issue of slavery--at least the area of Deseret. How do you see things changing?

[_Bond...James Bond]

Now that I think about it it might have sped up the Civil War year because of its breaking the balance in slave and free states (an important political debate). The Civil War was inevitable.

I thought the west was largely neutral on the issue of slavery--at least the area of Deseret. How do you see things changing?

The church was pretty anti-slavery (the members were all from northern states originally afterall).

It wasn't the west particularly influencing the slavery debate but more about votes in the Senate. As long as their was an equal number of states on both sides of the free/slave issue the Southern Congressman could block legislation harmful to slavery.

The South had originally wanted California to become a slave state but the Gold Rush brought alot of northern anti-slavery people into the state. If a Deseret state had been put into the Union in 1850 or 1851 the balance of slave/free states would have been thrown out of wack. The Civil War probably would've happened in the 1850s ten years before the war actually happened in 1861.

Either way, the war was inevitable. Frankly I'm suprised it didn't happen in 1820.

Bond

[_asbestosman]

Either way, the war was inevitable. Frankly I'm suprised it didn't happen in 1820.

That's an interesting question. If it did, would it have changed the development of the church? 1820 was when Joseph Smith went to the woods to pray. Woulda been hard to translate the Book of Mormon what with the Civil War going on.

[Anonymous]

Either way, the war was inevitable. Frankly I'm suprised it didn't happen in 1820.

That's an interesting question. If it did, would it have changed the development of the church? 1820 was when Joseph Smith went to the woods to pray. Woulda been hard to translate the Book of Mormon what with the Civil War going on.

You mean like what if he gets drafted and gets killed somewhere in Virginia?

Well we would't be here. Or we'd be here debating football or something.

Bond

[_asbestosman]

Either way, the war was inevitable. Frankly I'm suprised it didn't happen in 1820.

That's an interesting question. If it did, would it have changed the development of the church? 1820 was when Joseph Smith went to the woods to pray. Woulda been hard to translate the Book of Mormon what with the Civil War going on.

You mean like what if he gets drafted and gets killed somewhere in Virginia?

Well we won't be here. Or we'd be here debating football or something.

There's always that possiblity. There was also the possiblity that he'd have to wait for the Civil war to end and thing to calm down a bit. The delay would be 5-10 years maybe. Perhaps it would also have given Joseph a better chance at running for the presidency after the war as the political situation would have changed. Maybe the time difference would mean that key players in the church would not have been met such as Sidney Rigdon, Brigham Young, or John Taylor. Perhaps the priesthood ban would never have taken place. There are so many possibilities in a post-civil war restoration.

[_Bond...James Bond]

Either way, the war was inevitable. Frankly I'm suprised it didn't happen in 1820.

That's an interesting question. If it did, would it have changed the development of the church? 1820 was when Joseph Smith went to the woods to pray. Woulda been hard to translate the Book of Mormon what with the Civil War going on.

You mean like what if he gets drafted and gets killed somewhere in Virginia?

Well we wouldn't be here. Or we'd be here debating football or something.

Bond

If there was a Civil War in 1820 it would have turned out completely different. I don't even want to try to detail the things that could have happened. Let's assume alot of difference in American history, and consequently alot different in Mormon history.

Bond