My dillema - Raising my daughter correctly

[_Polygamy Porter]

Truth Dancers advice sounds very wise. It would undoubtedly be wise to cool your jets on this one, since it has the potential of causing a real rift between you and your wife.

As for myself, I am looking forward to baptizing my daughter. I wish to impart to her a love of all people and a respect for all faith traditions.

Then why stop at a Mormon baptism? Why not do them all?

You sound like a social Mormon to me. You don't believe in all of it, but are just doing it for family and friends.

[_asbestosman]

The implication is that she would lose her exaltation and the ability to actualize her full, eternal potential, of her own free will and choice but under the heavy influence of her Father from her impressionable childhood upwards.

So God let's parents damn their children? Not in my book He doesn't.

I agree we can influence people, but I do not think God will judge people based on how we influence them. Basically we can influence people towards happiness or misery. The eternal rewards will come based on individual choices, not based on what the parents brainwashed their children with. Otherwise it seems to be that templework is in vain.

I also agree that God holds parents accountable for what they teach their children. He simply does not hold children accountable for what their parents teach them. That is a very significant difference. Parents can certainly hurt their children by poisoning them against the truth, but that hurt is similar to any other hurt one could inflict upon another person. It will not change their salvation. Nevertheless parents will be held accountable for what they should have taught and for the delayed opportunities at spiritual growth.

[_Coggins7]

I agree we can influence people, but I do not think God will judge people based on how we influence them.

I'm not saying that. I'm saying that God will judge us on how we allowed others to influence us. But influence, upon a small impressionable child, imposed throughout childhood, hardens into iron clad traditions, assumptions, and unexamined biases that are very difficult to break. This is true in a number of areas, not just this one. If we assist, or help others to loose their exhaltaion and blessings, we will be held accountable, to one degree or another. The Book of Mormon calls leading others out of the Church the spiritual "murder' of God's children, so its quite a serious matter.

Loran

[_Runtu]

I agree we can influence people, but I do not think God will judge people based on how we influence them.

I'm not saying that. I'm saying that God will judge us on how we allowed others to influence us. But influence, upon a small impressionable child, imposed throughout childhood, hardens into iron clad traditions, assumptions, and unexamined biases that are very difficult to break. This is true in a number of areas, not just this one. If we assist, or help others to loose their exhaltaion and blessings, we will be held accountable, to one degree or another. The Book of Mormon calls leading others out of the Church the spiritual "murder' of God's children, so its quite a serious matter.

Loran

I made an agreement with my wife that I would not go out of my way to explain to my children why I no longer believe in Mormonism. But if they ask, I tell them. My oldest son said it was a relief to know that he wasn't the only one in the family who saw through it. My middle daughter reacted rather badly, but we're doing better. I'm sure it will come up with all of them, and they are free to make their own decisions. I will support them however they decide.

[_asbestosman]

I agree we can influence people, but I do not think God will judge people based on how we influence them.

I'm not saying that. I'm saying that God will judge us on how we allowed others to influence us. But influence, upon a small impressionable child, imposed throughout childhood, hardens into iron clad traditions, assumptions, and unexamined biases that are very difficult to break. This is true in a number of areas, not just this one. If we assist, or help others to loose their exhaltaion and blessings, we will be held accountable, to one degree or another. The Book of Mormon calls leading others out of the Church the spiritual "murder' of God's children, so its quite a serious matter.

I agree it's serious. I'm just saying that if someone actually does allow us to influence them to lose their exaltation, then they would have lost it anyhow even without our interferrence (someone else would have stepped in to do it). That doesn't lessen the seriousness of the situation. It's merely a defense of justice and agency.

[_Jersey Girl]

Loran: I'm not saying that. I'm saying that God will judge us on how we allowed others to influence us.

Jersey Girl: That makes sense.

Loran: But influence, upon a small impressionable child, imposed throughout childhood, hardens into iron clad traditions, assumptions, and unexamined biases that are very difficult to break.

Jersey Girl: That is what Vegas is concerned about regarding his daughter.

Loran: This is true in a number of areas, not just this one. If we assist, or help others to loose their exhaltaion and blessings, we will be held accountable, to one degree or another. The Book of Mormon calls leading others out of the Church the spiritual "murder' of God's children, so its quite a serious matter.

Jersey Girl: Do you think God has the power to bring them back?

[_asbestosman]

Here's one thing I wonder. If the church's brainwashing is so incredibly effective, then how did VegasRefugee and the rest of you mannage to see through it? Is the church really that hard to "escape" from? Is it really that dangerous? I can understand a feeling of frustration and confusion if you decide that another faith (or not faith) is correct, but I really think this whole cult business is blowing things way out of proportion. Certainly some church members are a bit too zealous for my tastes, but ultiately I think the church only has as much power as you give it.

[_Runtu]

Here's one thing I wonder. If the church's brainwashing is so incredibly effective, then how did VegasRefugee and the rest of you mannage to see through it? Is the church really that hard to "escape" from? Is it really that dangerous? I can understand a feeling of frustration and confusion if you decide that another faith (or not faith) is correct, but I really think this whole cult business is blowing things way out of proportion. Certainly some church members are a bit too zealous for my tastes, but ultiately I think the church only has as much power as you give it.

I wouldn't call it brainwashing, but some habits die hard. I see all the time that we exmos still carry a lot of the stuff that was pounded into us. But the church's indoctrination (that was President Kimball's word) is pretty effective because even a lot of exmos feel guilty for having learned the truth about the church's origins and history.

As for how hard it was to leave, I don't think it would have been a big deal if we didn't have family members, ward members, home teachers, etc., trying to get us back into the church. Leaving is painful, not only for us, but for those we love. And that causes a lot of pain and stress and even anger and hurt.

[_Ray A]

I think eight is too young for baptism. The JWs have a better policy in this regard. They don't baptise until the children are old enough to have a better understanding, like in early teens, if necessary. The Catholics don't even wait until eight, they baptise a week or a bit more after birth, and confirmation takes place at eight.

[_desert_vulture]

My wife is still LDS, I do not attend. Although I have a cordial and small social relationship with the Mormons my wife attends church with, I am starting to become uneasy at the thought of my one year old daughter attending the indoctrination and utter brainwashing of primary. Its down the road but not upon me yet. I am left with two tasks that would give me the desired result:

1. Convince my wife to leave the cult
2. Convince my wife that having our daughter attend primary will dammage her ability to discern what real truth is.

I love my wife dearly but this issue is unnerving. The last thing I want is my daughter to become locked in the clutches of the cult but I am afraid my wife believes I have no say in this.

What would you do?

Your daughter is a one year old. She basically has a clean slate intellectually. After singing, or should I say chanting "Follow the Prophet, follow the prophet, follow the prophet, he knows the wayyyyy" a few hundred times in primary, you'll be fighting an uphill battle.

One primary president actually told me she thought that we were brainwashing the kids in primary. I thought to myself "How could a Hitler-esque song such as "Follow the Prophet" be considered brainwashing...come on, not that" as I convinced myself that the military-style of the song was totally coincidental.

My daughter is 14 and she is heavily involved in our ward. EFY, YM/YW, friends, activities, seminary, the whole constant barrage of Mormon elitism. I had to practically force her to go to another church with one of her friends, to expand her horizons. Attending another church was viewed with suspicion by her Mormon friends. All I can say is, I wish I had the chance that you have, with the new knowledge I've gained of the New Mormon history over the past two years. I'm scared for the future of my kids in this church. I had my home teacher over today grilling my kids about gospel principles, seriously grilling them, and I realized that hometeaching is being used now as a control mechanism, not really like it used to be back in the 60s where you went to help the families.

Do what you can to get her out now. You'll only regret it in the future if you don't.