SCMC (I warned you Scratch...)

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_Sam Harris
_Emeritus
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Joined: Tue Nov 28, 2006 2:35 am

Post by _Sam Harris »

Coggins7 wrote:

GIMR: Given that you are black, how is comparing you with Angela Davis, who is also black, racist (but I know that you, being psychologically and ideologically who you are, will find a way to make it so)?



Coggins,

Men like you are exactly why I am an advocate for sterilization. In my threads about race and the church, YOU compared ME with Angela Davis. In other words, because I was bothered by experiences that I had that you did not like for me to speak about, I was racist.

You're a bigot. An a**hole. A spastic little child lost in his own world of S&M with God. And yes, a racist. You know nothing about my culture past what you watch on your little black and white TV set. It's 2007, get your head out your nearest GA's ass and get a clue.
Each one has to find his peace from within. And peace to be real must be unaffected by outside circumstances. -Ghandi
_Sam Harris
_Emeritus
Posts: 2261
Joined: Tue Nov 28, 2006 2:35 am

Post by _Sam Harris »

Mister Scratch wrote:
Coggins7 wrote:
You once posted some material about African Americans in Los Angeles that stepped over the line, in my opinion.



Nice smear. Nice slander Scratch. Now, let's see if you can back up your caulumny with a source. That shouldn't be too hard as I must have made that comment here in this forum. The fact of the matter is that I've never made a single comment anywhere, in any forum, about African Americans (by which, I presume you mean Black Americans) because I have no reason to. I do not percieve Black people as a group to be any different or any better or worse than any other sub-class of human beings.


This ring any bells?:

Every time I see a thread like this I think "oh no, NOT another thread on blacks and the Priesthood". You know, there will still be people trying to free Mumia ten thousand years from now. Permanent revolution. It will never end. The grievance and pathological, flagellating collective guilt will still be with us.

Well, I've gone beyond it and, in fact, I was never part of it because my parents never taught me racist attitudes and I was never part of any racial oppression of anyone nor did I ever support such oppression, so I bear no guilt or responsability for it. I guess I have trouble understanding why this rottong corpse won't stay in its grave.


Calling racism, and people's feelings about it a "rottong [sic] corpse" seems a bit "over the line," imho.

Too bad you don't feel the same way about Mormons.


I *am* a Mormon, you idiot!


GIMR: Given that you are black, how is comparing you with Angela Davis, who is also black, racist (but I know that you, being psychologically and ideologically who you are, will find a way to make it so)?


It's racist because you are conflating them. You are saying, in effect, "Hey, you're both Black, so you both must be the same!" Allow me to demonstrate why this is bad: "Gee, Loran, you're LDS, so you must be just like Mark Hacking!" Or, "Gee, Loran, you are wacko and right-wing and LDS, so you must be just on the verge of flying off the handle, Lafferty Bro.-style, right?"

Boy, Loran---I really have to hand it to you. Never have I learned so much about how to consistently apply ad hominems and straw men arguments!

I never made any such attempt at a "scientific" analysis of Hip Hop culture. Source? I made a brief comment in passing and it was a philosophical analysis, not scientific.


Which means, coming from you, that it was some right-wing nutjob crap gleaned from some off-the-cuff remark made by Rush Limbaugh or Bill O'Reilly.

No scientific analysis of Hip Hop culture is possible, as Hip Hop culture involves ideology, philosophy, and personal attitudes and psychological styles that are quite beyond scientific analysis. Hip Hop culture is a subject for philosophy, pyschology, theology, and political phiolsophy, not science. To the degree that "social science" disciplines like sociology or social psychology deal with such cultural phenomena, they deal with large scale group dynamics and mass behavioral trends, not the core philosophical and cultural dynamics and their possible interpretation upon which such phenomena are based.

You and Scatch and Vegas are such typical, typical, typical liberals.


Yup, and you are such a typical, typical, typical uneducated right-wing philistine hack.

You hurl formatted, potboiler smears like racist and mysongyist because [i]that is all you have to bring to the discussion.[/i] You have your impotent rage, your bigoted and anti-intellectual desire to destroy that which you cannot or will not understand, and your little black bag of PC put downs and moral defamations. Its all you have, and unfortunately, probably all people like you ever will have.


Yup, and you are afraid of anything that is not White, Patriarchal, and Conservative, and you want to take over the world under the rubric of "moral values," which really means, as we all know, Right-Wing Fascist Values.


Scratch, thank you for banging your head against the proverbial wall countless times trying to get this self-made vegetable to think. Sadly, I don't think it's going to work.
Each one has to find his peace from within. And peace to be real must be unaffected by outside circumstances. -Ghandi
_Coggins7
_Emeritus
Posts: 3679
Joined: Fri Nov 03, 2006 12:25 am

Post by _Coggins7 »

Quote:
Every time I see a thread like this I think "oh no, NOT another thread on blacks and the Priesthood". You know, there will still be people trying to free Mumia ten thousand years from now. Permanent revolution. It will never end. The grievance and pathological, flagellating collective guilt will still be with us.

Well, I've gone beyond it and, in fact, I was never part of it because my parents never taught me racist attitudes and I was never part of any racial oppression of anyone nor did I ever support such oppression, so I bear no guilt or responsability for it. I guess I have trouble understanding why this rottong corpse won't stay in its grave.



Calling racism, and people's feelings about it a "rottong [sic] corpse" seems a bit "over the line," imho.



I'm still waiting for a shred of evidence that I harbor racist sentiments about anyone and that I ever made a racist statement. If you would lile to try to extract something "racist" from the above comments I'm sure it would be enlightening.

This next section both justifies and amplifies everything I've suspected about Scratch from the very beginning of our discussions in this forum, especially regarding his leftist ideological leanings:


Quote:
GIMR: Given that you are black, how is comparing you with Angela Davis, who is also black, racist (but I know that you, being psychologically and ideologically who you are, will find a way to make it so)?



It's racist because you are conflating them. You are saying, in effect, "Hey, you're both Black, so you both must be the same!" Allow me to demonstrate why this is bad: "Gee, Loran, you're LDS, so you must be just like Mark Hacking!" Or, "Gee, Loran, you are wacko and right-wing and LDS, so you must be just on the verge of flying off the handle, Lafferty Bro.-style, right?"

Boy, Loran---I really have to hand it to you. Never have I learned so much about how to consistently apply ad hominems and straw men arguments!


You see, ladies and gentlement (and those of you who have studied and observed the modern Left/Liberal political culture and its ideological predispositions will understand what has happened here upon even the most cursory inspection), by conflating (facetiously, in part) Angela Davis (a radical leftist) with GIMR (who also appears to be very much a leftist who happens to be black, hypersensitive to racial issues, and imbued, from much of what she has said, with elements of the Black Power and cultural nationalist ideology of the civil rights Left of that era (as well as the present one)), I did nothing but make a point about the ideological affinities both seem to share, to some degree.

What Scratch seems to be implying in this desperate grasp at straws far, far out of his reach, is that what I'm saying is that because Angela Davis is black, and a communist, and GIMR is black, it therefore follows in my feverish, racist mind, that GIMR must also be a communist. I'd be pleased to take a look at any coherant inductive or deductive argument that can compellingly show that, given what I actually wrote, this is a plausible interpretation (of course what I did mean was that both share a similar Black cutural nationalist ideological template, not that their skin color makes them lean toward one kind of ideology over another. That is what leftists believe, not conservatives).

As we all know, if GIMR were white, and I equated her to Margaret Sanger, Lillian Hellman, or Bella Abzug, no possible criticism of that comparison would ever hinge on an irrational predjudice I could be conceived to have based on an inherant attribute of GIMRs over which she had no control

I will reiterate: the various moral slanders beloved of the cultural and political Left, not by any means limited to but especially regarding race (follwed by class, gender, and ethinicity, which are the favoirites of this particular kind of demagogery) are compensations for and are offered in lieu of serious, critical philosophical argument. People like Scratch have none. They are those whome Thomas Sowell has dubbed "The Annointed" and their annointing releases them from any need to engage in serious, critical thought, or engage the substance of ideas.

No, for The Annointed, it is enough, when faced with facts, evidence, or logical argument claimed to refute their own ideas, to cry "Racist!" "Sexist!" "Homophonbe!" "Classist!" "Hate!" "Running dog exploiter!", or whatever the finely tuned PC of the day and issue happen to be at the time.

Its fun, its easy, and its also a bare faced admission at the outset that one has already lost the argument before the battle has even been joined.

What leftists like Scratch and GIMR love to do, by hurling moral slanders and innuendoes and calling names, is to make the conservative or libertarian defend himself publically. He want's me to say "no, I'm not a racist and I never will be a racist". He wants me to make a plea for moral clemency from him. Of course, by the very act of doing so, I appear to be defensive and this accomplishes two things in political and cultual warfare. First, by the very act of responding, I add
psychological credibility to his claims. Secondly, if the non-liberal allows it, the entire discussion will now become a disscussion of the leftist's oppenent's moral qualifications to even be in the debate. This is how the Left has gone about debating the Right for my entire lifetime. Its the manner in which the Left has comported itself since the Frecnch Revolution. It was the intellectual modus operandi of almost the entire New Left during the sixties and early seventies.

But, no further need to belabor these points.


Loran
_Mister Scratch
_Emeritus
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Post by _Mister Scratch »

Coggins7 wrote:
Quote:
Every time I see a thread like this I think "oh no, NOT another thread on blacks and the Priesthood". You know, there will still be people trying to free Mumia ten thousand years from now. Permanent revolution. It will never end. The grievance and pathological, flagellating collective guilt will still be with us.

Well, I've gone beyond it and, in fact, I was never part of it because my parents never taught me racist attitudes and I was never part of any racial oppression of anyone nor did I ever support such oppression, so I bear no guilt or responsability for it. I guess I have trouble understanding why this rottong corpse won't stay in its grave.



Calling racism, and people's feelings about it a "rottong [sic] corpse" seems a bit "over the line," imho.



I'm still waiting for a shred of evidence that I harbor racist sentiments about anyone and that I ever made a racist statement. If you would lile to try to extract something "racist" from the above comments I'm sure it would be enlightening.


It's already been done. You are claiming that African American struggles for equality in this country amount to a "rottong [sic] corpse." The reason you did this is because you are terrified of the left, as befits a completely benighted, corn-pone, Robert Bork-worshipping racist, Right-Wing wacko hick like yourself.

This next section both justifies and amplifies everything I've suspected about Scratch from the very beginning of our discussions in this forum, especially regarding his leftist ideological leanings:

Quote:
GIMR: Given that you are black, how is comparing you with Angela Davis, who is also black, racist (but I know that you, being psychologically and ideologically who you are, will find a way to make it so)?

It's racist because you are conflating them. You are saying, in effect, "Hey, you're both Black, so you both must be the same!" Allow me to demonstrate why this is bad: "Gee, Loran, you're LDS, so you must be just like Mark Hacking!" Or, "Gee, Loran, you are wacko and right-wing and LDS, so you must be just on the verge of flying off the handle, Lafferty Bro.-style, right?"

Boy, Loran---I really have to hand it to you. Never have I learned so much about how to consistently apply ad hominems and straw men arguments!


You see, ladies and gentlement [sic](and those of you who have studied and observed the modern Left/Liberal political culture and its ideological predispositions will understand what has happened here upon even the most cursory inspection), by conflating (facetiously, in part) Angela Davis (a radical leftist) with GIMR (who also appears to be very much a leftist who happens to be black, hypersensitive to racial issues, and imbued, from much of what she has said, with elements of the Black Power and cultural nationalist ideology of the civil rights Left of that era (as well as the present one)), I did nothing but make a point about the ideological affinities both seem to share, to some degree.


Do you really think that conflating the two phrases "hypersensitive to racial issues" and "rottung corpse" is really very sensitive or wise? Or is instead just par for the course from yet another unshaven, Neanderthal, pointy-white-hat wearing Right Wing nutjob? Tell me, Loran: when is the last time you polished and greased your well-stocked arsenal of 2nd Amendment sanctioned firearms?

What Scratch seems to be implying in this desperate grasp at straws far, far out of his reach, is that what I'm saying is that because Angela Davis is black, and a communist, and GIMR is black, it therefore follows in my feverish, racist mind, that GIMR must also be a communist.


Well done! Yes, that's exactly what seemed to be taking place. At least, that is obviously what would happen in the mind of someone who is so obviously a Bible-thumping, jackbooted, Neo-nazi, "Dueling Banjo"-loving trainwreck castaway from My Name is Earl. You are like a bad Jeff Foxworthy joke, Loran.

I'd be pleased to take a look at any coherant inductive or deductive argument that can compellingly show that, given what I actually wrote, this is a plausible interpretation (of course what I did mean was that both share a similar Black cutural nationalist ideological template, not that their skin color makes them lean toward one kind of ideology over another. That is what leftists believe, not conservatives).


You just don't get it do you? What Right-wing nutjobs such as you believe is that Leftists should be burned. And that Iraqi oil should be taken with force. Hey, that's not bigoted! That's just me pointing out that you "share a similar Right-wing template" as every other racist, buck-toothed, trucker-hat-wearing, pussle-gutted hillbilly in America. Such fun to be pigeonholed, isn't it?

As we all know, if GIMR were white, and I equated her to Margaret Sanger, Lillian Hellman, or Bella Abzug, no possible criticism of that comparison would ever hinge on an irrational predjudice I could be conceived to have based on an inherant attribute of GIMRs over which she had no control


But that's not what you did, and you know it. You continue to dig yourself in deeper. Typical Right-wing nutjob that you are, you are portraying yourself more and more like a Holocaust Denier. Just like those folks, you want to pretend like racism and sexism are "no big deal," and some conspiratorial scheme hatched by the Left. Give me a break.

I will reiterate: the various moral slanders beloved of the cultural and political Left, not by any means limited to but especially regarding race (follwed by class, gender, and ethinicity, which are the favoirites of this particular kind of demagogery) are compensations for and are offered in lieu of serious, critical philosophical argument.


Cornpone flushing of "undesirables," rounding up of Jews, homosexuals, communists, and others from the Left is the M.O. of Right-wing conservative crackpots like you, Loran. Your mentors, Roy Cohn and Senator McCarthy would be proud!

People like Scratch have none. They are those whome Thomas Sowell has dubbed "The Annointed" and their annointing releases them from any need to engage in serious, critical thought, or engage the substance of ideas.


You have nothing yourself. You label anything you don't like as "Leftist demagoguery," and that's the end of it.

No, for The Annointed, it is enough, when faced with facts, evidence, or logical argument claimed to refute their own ideas, to cry "Racist!" "Sexist!" "Homophonbe!" "Classist!" "Hate!" "Running dog exploiter!", or whatever the finely tuned PC of the day and issue happen to be at the time.


Yup, just like you kick out your racist, sexist, homophobic conflations right on cue. Did Gomer Pyle teach you that? Are your overalls all up in a bunch?

Its fun, its easy, and its also a bare faced admission at the outset that one has already lost the argument before the battle has even been joined.


Ah, so that's why you keep shouting "Leftist demagoguery!!" Argumentum ad nauseum. Well done again, you stupid Right-wing Neanderthal hick.

What leftists like Scratch and GIMR love to do, by hurling moral slanders and innuendoes and calling names, is to make the conservative or libertarian defend himself publically. He want's me to say "no, I'm not a racist and I never will be a racist". He wants me to make a plea for moral clemency from him. Of course, by the very act of doing so, I appear to be defensive and this accomplishes two things in political and cultual warfare. First, by the very act of responding, I add
psychological credibility to his claims.


None of us would have been able to say anything if you'd been tactful and politic in the first place. Instead, out comes your McCarthy-sanctioned bashing of anything that doesn't suit your fancy. Your stoneaged labeling of everything that scares you as "demagoguery."

Secondly, if the non-liberal allows it, the entire discussion will now become a disscussion of the leftist's oppenent's moral qualifications to even be in the debate.


Ah, right. You mean how the Conservatives were raising all sorts of questions about Clinton's ability to govern post-Lewinski?

This is how the Left has gone about debating the Right for my entire lifetime. Its the manner in which the Left has comported itself since the Frecnch Revolution. It was the intellectual modus operandi of almost the entire New Left during the sixties and early seventies.


Yep, and the strategy of the Right since the rise of Karl Rove has to squelch all sorts of American freedoms in the name of hick "moral values", and a bunch of people who think it's okay to justify anything at all---including murder---by saying, "Jesus told me so!" Great company your in, Loran. Can't you hear the Andy Griffith Show theme song starting up? Don't you have a fence that needs paintin'? Doesn't your doublewide need a thorough vacuumin'? Maybe your sniper rifle needs a new scope? Does your white pointy hat need to be bleached?

But, no further need to belabor these points.
Loran


No, none at all, since you've had your butt kicked yet again, you Right-wing fascist ideologue.
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