Welcome question for Shirts: Where is the stone box?

[_Baurak Ale]

Dunno how to find the exact reference I believe its in Brenton G. Yorgason's (Ph. D.) , "Little known evidences of the Book of Mormon". Which covers many little points of interests from memory like the fact that the plates actually had a black ink, inlaid into superscription to make it more readable. For the exact quote and reference I would ask one of the folks over at MADB. I am just an average shmoo, tinkering mechanic not an expert on church history. Still the fact the stone box was found doesn't prove anything, why people try to prove the church either true or false definitively or factually is beyound me, because it can't be done with Mormonism or any other Religion, still I suppose it doesn't stop people from trying. paradox. It's no surprise Shirts doesn't know I think his area of interest is ancient scripture.

[_harmony]

Dunno how to find the exact reference I believe its in Brenton G. Yorgason's (Ph. D.) , "Little known evidences of the Book of Mormon". Which covers many little points of interests from memory like the fact that the plates actually had a black ink, inlaid into superscription to make it more readable. For the exact quote and reference I would ask one of the folks over at MADB. I am just an average shmoo, tinkering mechanic not an expert on church history. Still the fact the stone box was found doesn't prove anything, why people try to prove the church either true or false definitively or factually is beyound me, because it can't be done with Mormonism or any other Religion, still I suppose it doesn't stop people from trying. paradox. It's no surprise Shirts doesn't know I think his area of interest is ancient scripture.

Good grief. An of course everyone is supposed to believe this. Without doubt. With total faith in its veracity. Without the box . Of course we know where the box is: it's in the Vault, with the Urim and Thummim and the plates. Either that or the pixies took it.

[_Runtu]

I hate to break it to you guys, but the stone box containing the Book of Mormon was actually located and dug up, by the many fanatics who were who were staunch Anti-Mormons who were attempting to steal the plates at all cost, for their monetary value. The stone box was actually located no surprise seeing the area is not that large, the individual stone slabs were themselves excavated by the anti-mormons in their search for the plates and were found in a pile at the foot of the Hill Cumorah. This is factual church history, I have heard and read the account many times, it can be found in the book little known eye witness accounts of the Book of Mormon also its in the independant documentary "Roots of an American Prophet" by (The Living Scriptures Inc.) I must of missed something I am new here was this discussed earliar?

I remember reading a citation from the 19th century that stated that the box, opened, had been visible for quite some time after Joseph Smith's alleged discovery of the plates, but that it had ended up washing down the hill in a mudslide and breaking up. I'll have to look for the source (bear with me, I'm lazy and pressed for time), but that would contradict your statement.

[_Zakuska]

Wheres the box?

The Chicago Times Interviews David Whitmer August 1875 S.L. Herald, 12 Aug 1875 in Ebbie Richardson, "David Whitmer," pp.158

David Whitmer was married in Seneca County, New York, in 1830, and was for a number of years an elder in the Church of Christ. Today he is the proprietor of a livery stable in Richmond, Missouri, owns some real estate, has a handsome balance in the bank, is universally respected by all who know him, and surrounded by children and grandchildren, is pleasantly gliding toward the gates of sunset, confident that the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob was also the God of Nephi, whose faithful disciple he has been and is. He does not believe that all believing in the Book of Mormon or all adherents to any other faith will be found among the elect, but that the truly good of every faith will be gathered in fulfillment of prophecy. Neither does he believe that the Book of Mormon is the only record of the lost tribes hidden in the earth, but on the contrary, that the caves hold other records that will not come forth till all is peace and the lion shall eat straw with the lamb. Three times he has been at the Hill Cumorah and seen the casket that contained the tablets and seerstone. Eventually the casket has been washed down to the foot of the hill, but it was to be seen when he last visited the historic place.

http://www.2s2.com/chapmanresearch/user/do...dwitmerbom.html

[_Runtu]

Wheres the box?

The Chicago Times Interviews David Whitmer August 1875 S.L. Herald, 12 Aug 1875 in Ebbie Richardson, "David Whitmer," pp.158

David Whitmer was married in Seneca County, New York, in 1830, and was for a number of years an elder in the Church of Christ. Today he is the proprietor of a livery stable in Richmond, Missouri, owns some real estate, has a handsome balance in the bank, is universally respected by all who know him, and surrounded by children and grandchildren, is pleasantly gliding toward the gates of sunset, confident that the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob was also the God of Nephi, whose faithful disciple he has been and is. He does not believe that all believing in the Book of Mormon or all adherents to any other faith will be found among the elect, but that the truly good of every faith will be gathered in fulfillment of prophecy. Neither does he believe that the Book of Mormon is the only record of the lost tribes hidden in the earth, but on the contrary, that the caves hold other records that will not come forth till all is peace and the lion shall eat straw with the lamb. Three times he has been at the Hill Cumorah and seen the casket that contained the tablets and seerstone. Eventually the casket has been washed down to the foot of the hill, but it was to be seen when he last visited the historic place.

http://www.2s2.com/chapmanresearch/user/do...dwitmerbom.html

Thanks, Zak. That is the reference I was thinking of. Glad I don't have to look it up. ;-)

[_harmony]

Wheres the box?

The Chicago Times Interviews David Whitmer August 1875 S.L. Herald, 12 Aug 1875 in Ebbie Richardson, "David Whitmer," pp.158

David Whitmer was married in Seneca County, New York, in 1830, and was for a number of years an elder in the Church of Christ. Today he is the proprietor of a livery stable in Richmond, Missouri, owns some real estate, has a handsome balance in the bank, is universally respected by all who know him, and surrounded by children and grandchildren, is pleasantly gliding toward the gates of sunset, confident that the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob was also the God of Nephi, whose faithful disciple he has been and is. He does not believe that all believing in the Book of Mormon or all adherents to any other faith will be found among the elect, but that the truly good of every faith will be gathered in fulfillment of prophecy. Neither does he believe that the Book of Mormon is the only record of the lost tribes hidden in the earth, but on the contrary, that the caves hold other records that will not come forth till all is peace and the lion shall eat straw with the lamb. Three times he has been at the Hill Cumorah and seen the casket that contained the tablets and seerstone. Eventually the casket has been washed down to the foot of the hill, but it was to be seen when he last visited the historic place.

http://www.2s2.com/chapmanresearch/user/do...dwitmerbom.html

Welcome, Zak. You'll find many of your fellow MADites already here.

[_Zakuska]

Hi all... Not to derail but this was also intresting...

I - When will the temple be built at Independence?

He - Right after the great tribulation is over.

I - What do you mean by that?

He - A civil war more bloody and cruel than the rebellion. It will be a smashing up of this nation, about which time the second great work has to be done, a work like Joseph did, and the translation of the sealed plates, and peace all over.

I - Will you live and see those things?

He - It was said to us, that the second great work should commence when nearly all the witnesses to the first plates had passed away, so I may live and see those things take place.

Here Witmer is predicting the Civil War. Doctrine and Covenants comes to mind. I wonder how many years this was before.

D. It was in June, 1829--the latter part of the month, and the Eight Witnesses saw them, I think, the next day or the day after (i.e. one or two days after). Joseph showed them the plates himself, but the angel showed us (the Three Witnesses) the plates, as I suppose to fulfill the words of the book itself. Martin Harris was not with us at this time; he obtained a view of them afterwards (the same day). Joseph, Oliver and myself were together when I saw them. We not only saw the plates of the Book of Mormon but also the brass plates, the plates of the Book of Ether, the plates containing the records of the wickedness and secret combinations of the people of the world down to the time of their being [page 772] engraved, and many other plates. The fact is, it was just as though Joseph, Oliver and I were sitting just here on a log, when we were overshadowed by a light. It was not like the light of the sun nor like that of a fire, but more glorious and beautiful. It extended away round us, I cannot tell how far, but in the midst of this light about as far off as he sits (pointing to John C. Whitmer, sitting a few feet from him), there appeared as it were, a table with many records or plates upon it, besides the plates of the Book of Mormon, also the Sword of Laban, the Directors--i.e., the ball which Lehi had--and the Interpreters. I saw them just as plain as I see this bed (striking the bed beside him with his hand), and I heard the voice of the Lord, as distinctly as I ever heard anything in my life, declaring that the records of the plates of the Book of Mormon were translated by the gift and power of God.

Heres another good one.

[_Bond...James Bond]

Hi all... Not to derail but this was also intresting...

I - When will the temple be built at Independence?

He - Right after the great tribulation is over.

I - What do you mean by that?

He - A civil war more bloody and cruel than the rebellion. It will be a smashing up of this nation, about which time the second great work has to be done, a work like Joseph did, and the translation of the sealed plates, and peace all over.

I - Will you live and see those things?

He - It was said to us, that the second great work should commence when nearly all the witnesses to the first plates had passed away, so I may live and see those things take place.

Here Witmer is predicting the Civil War. Doctrine and Covenants comes to mind. I wonder how many years this was before.

Just about everyone knew a Civil War was brewing. The first brewings were as early as 1820 when South Carolina tried to leave the Union. It's not like they were breaking any new ground by saying a Civil War was coming.

Let the derailment continue: sorry guys

[_Who Knows]

Hi all... Not to derail but this was also intresting...

I - When will the temple be built at Independence?

He - Right after the great tribulation is over.

I - What do you mean by that?

He - A civil war more bloody and cruel than the rebellion. It will be a smashing up of this nation, about which time the second great work has to be done, a work like Joseph did, and the translation of the sealed plates, and peace all over.

I - Will you live and see those things?

He - It was said to us, that the second great work should commence when nearly all the witnesses to the first plates had passed away, so I may live and see those things take place.

Here Witmer is predicting the Civil War.

He also predicted when the second coming would be, when the translation of the sealed plates would take place, and how they would all coincide. So he was what, 1 for 3 maybe?

D. It was in June, 1829--the latter part of the month, and the Eight Witnesses saw them, I think, the next day or the day after (i.e. one or two days after). Joseph showed them the plates himself, but the angel showed us (the Three Witnesses) the plates, as I suppose to fulfill the words of the book itself. Martin Harris was not with us at this time; he obtained a view of them afterwards (the same day). Joseph, Oliver and myself were together when I saw them. We not only saw the plates of the Book of Mormon but also the brass plates, the plates of the Book of Ether, the plates containing the records of the wickedness and secret combinations of the people of the world down to the time of their being [page 772] engraved, and many other plates. The fact is, it was just as though Joseph, Oliver and I were sitting just here on a log, when we were overshadowed by a light. It was not like the light of the sun nor like that of a fire, but more glorious and beautiful. It extended away round us, I cannot tell how far, but in the midst of this light about as far off as he sits (pointing to John C. Whitmer, sitting a few feet from him), there appeared as it were, a table with many records or plates upon it, besides the plates of the Book of Mormon, also the Sword of Laban, the Directors--i.e., the ball which Lehi had--and the Interpreters. I saw them just as plain as I see this bed (striking the bed beside him with his hand), and I heard the voice of the Lord, as distinctly as I ever heard anything in my life, declaring that the records of the plates of the Book of Mormon were translated by the gift and power of God.

I prefer the portion I bolded. But hey, that's just me. Kinda like a copperfield magic act eh?

[_cacheman]

Here Witmer is predicting the Civil War. Doctrine and Covenants comes to mind. I wonder how many years this was before.

This statement was made in 1878. I think he's prophecying a civil war to precede the millenium.

cacheman