Anyone reading the FairWiki?

[_CaliforniaKid]

There was a presentation at the Ex-Mormon conference in 2005 where Duwayne Anderson was talking about suicide rates in Utah. Critics have said that Utah's suicide rates are the highest in the nation. Apologists respond that the Mormons in Utah actually have a lower suicide rate than the rest of the US. Anderson pointed out that that means the non-Mormons in Utah must have a really high suicide rate. Why are all the non-Mormons in Utah killing themselves? What is it about Utah that causes non-Mormons to jump off bridges in droves?

[_Bond...James Bond]

There was a presentation at the Ex-Mormon conference in 2005 where Duwayne Anderson was talking about suicide rates in Utah. Critics have said that Utah's suicide rates are the highest in the nation. Apologists respond that the Mormons in Utah actually have a lower suicide rate than the rest of the US. Anderson pointed out that that means the non-Mormons in Utah must have a really high suicide rate. Why are all the non-Mormons in Utah killing themselves? What is it about Utah that causes non-Mormons to jump off bridges in droves?

That page (suicide and Mormons) is under construction on the WikiFair CK. I'm sure they'll soon have up some hairbrained argument about the evils of non-Mormons making Utah look bad.

[_The Dude]

Elder Dallin H. Oaks also cautioned members of the Church against the lures of materialism and "get-rich-quick" schemes:

Some have charged that modern Latter-day Saints are peculiarly susceptible to the gospel of success and the theology of prosperity. According to this gospel, success in this world—particularly entrepreneurial success—is an essential ingredient of progress toward the celestial kingdom. According to this theology, success and prosperity are rewards for keeping the commandments, and a large home and an expensive car are marks of heavenly favor. Those who make this charge point to the apparent susceptibility of Utahns (predominantly Latter-day Saints) to the speculative proposals of various get-rich-quick artists. They claim that many Utahns are gullible and overeager for wealth.
Certainly, Utah has had many victims of speculative enterprises. For at least a decade there have been a succession of frauds worked by predominantly Mormon entrepreneurs upon predominantly Mormon victims. Stock manipulations; residential mortgage financings; gold, silver, diamonds, uranium, and document investments; pyramid schemes—all have taken their toll upon the faithful and gullible. Whether inherently too trusting or just naïvely overeager for a shortcut to the material prosperity some see as the badge of righteousness, some Latter-day Saints are apparently too vulnerable to the lure of sudden wealth.

Objective observers differ on whether Latter-day Saints are more susceptible to get-rich-quick proposals than other citizens. However that may be, it is disturbing that there is no clear evidence that Latter-day Saints are less susceptible. Men and women who have heard and taken to heart the scriptural warnings against materialism should not be vulnerable to the deceitfulness of riches and the extravagant blandishments of its promoters.[3]

Get-rich-quick schemes? Mormon gullibility? What hogwash. Let's cut this down to reality. LDS get married too young, have too many kids, and pay too much tithing. That's it.

Tithing certainly has something to do with it, but I think you shouldn't write off "Mormon gullibility" so quickly. Elder Oaks has a point. When people pray to God for financial blessings, and then they get a knock on the door from some rip-off artist, they may tend to suspend their skepticism and think it's an answer to their prayers. The LDS Church continues to thrive because of the ever-willing faithheads (bless their souls), and so do more blatant and calculating crooks.

[_Bond...James Bond]

Tithing certainly has something to do with it, but I think you shouldn't write off "Mormon gullibility" so quickly. Elder Oaks has a point. When people pray to God for financial blessings, and then they get a knock on the door from some rip-off artist, they may tend to suspend their skepticism and think it's an answer to their prayers. The LDS Church continues to thrive because of the ever-willing faithheads (bless their souls), and so do more blatant and calculating crooks.

True. The trust factor is a double-edged blade. On the one hand you got trustworthy people (always a character plus), but on the other hand trusting people tend to be, well, trusting people (an easy con for the experts). A little vigilance and skepticism about finances goes a long way towards a harmonic budget.

But I don't know if you can chalk up every bankruptcy to bad money management or people buying into stock tricks and con artists (The Wiki article doesn't even mention tithing as a possibility---it doesn't mention tithing at all). Some people just don't make enough to support kids and a tithe and all the other costs of life (insurance, rent/mortgage, utilities, all the rest) in this day and age.

[_Notoriuswun]

The MORG has made it a primary mission to infiltrate Wikipedia.

Don't believe me?

Go look up Coffee, towards the end you will see the LDS position on Hot drinks - the entry actually seems to be a quasi-scripture- and has no actual relevance to the actual article.

Looks like alot of Returned Mish's are doing alot more on Friday and Saturday nights than looking for wide-hipped come-hither sisters.

[_Notoriuswun]

There was a presentation at the Ex-Mormon conference in 2005 where Duwayne Anderson was talking about suicide rates in Utah. Critics have said that Utah's suicide rates are the highest in the nation. Apologists respond that the Mormons in Utah actually have a lower suicide rate than the rest of the US. Anderson pointed out that that means the non-Mormons in Utah must have a really high suicide rate. Why are all the non-Mormons in Utah killing themselves? What is it about Utah that causes non-Mormons to jump off bridges in droves?

Must be the new anti-immigration laws.

[_The Dude]

The LDS position on Hot drinks=

Members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, according to their religious beliefs, should not consume coffee. Contrary to popular belief, this is not due to the presence of caffeine in coffee. Rather, it stems from the 1833 declaration by Joseph Smith, commonly called the "Word of Wisdom," that "hot drinks are not for the belly." (Doctrine & Covenants Section 89) This was later clarified to mean coffee or tea. Coffee is avoided by Mormons, as should be any thing that might be habit forming, including caffeine. However, the Mormon Church has never officially said that its members should avoid caffeine in order to be temple worthy.

So is it, or is it not, because of the caffeine? This is one of the most confusing positions in LDS doctrine. Why can't they just be like the Jewish kosher laws and proclaim it to be a spiritual covenant, instead of this nonsensical health rationalization that doesn't add up at all.

The MORG has made it a primary mission to infiltrate Wikipedia.

Don't believe me?

Well, some probably have. Do you know any other examples?

About a year ago if you looked up "Tapir" on wikipedia you would see a paragraph about how ancient Americans rode tapirs like horses, according to John Sorenson and the Book of Mormon. That was a hoot while it lasted, but it's gone now.

Looks like alot of Returned Mish's are doing alot more on Friday and Saturday nights than looking for wide-hipped come-hither sisters.

LOL

Yeah, a lot of critics are having fun too.

[_Notoriuswun]

The LDS position on Hot drinks=

Members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, according to their religious beliefs, should not consume coffee. Contrary to popular belief, this is not due to the presence of caffeine in coffee. Rather, it stems from the 1833 declaration by Joseph Smith, commonly called the "Word of Wisdom," that "hot drinks are not for the belly." (Doctrine & Covenants Section 89) This was later clarified to mean coffee or tea. Coffee is avoided by Mormons, as should be any thing that might be habit forming, including caffeine. However, the Mormon Church has never officially said that its members should avoid caffeine in order to be temple worthy.

So is it, or is it not, because of the caffeine? This is one of the most confusing positions in LDS doctrine. Why can't they just be like the Jewish kosher laws and proclaim it to be a spiritual covenant, instead of this nonsensical health rationalization that doesn't add up at all.

The MORG has made it a primary mission to infiltrate Wikipedia.

Don't believe me?

Well, some probably have. Do you know any other examples?

About a year ago if you looked up "Tapir" on wikipedia you would see a paragraph about how ancient Americans rode tapirs like horses, according to John Sorenson and the Book of Mormon. That was a hoot while it lasted, but it's gone now.

Looks like alot of Returned Mish's are doing alot more on Friday and Saturday nights than looking for wide-hipped come-hither sisters.

LOL

Yeah, a lot of critics are having fun too.

heh. Just visit any site about Mormonism (including ex Mormonism), and you will see the battle that is taking place. Personally, I gave up a long time ago; but at one time I was a stripling warrior in the battle against WikiMorg. Alot of them have become Admins...and thus have the final say in alot of articles.

ps the most controversial article is probably the B Young wiki. Many a brave and courageous exmo has perished editing said wiki.

*sheds a tear for those who died in vain*

Boise, Id (look at the talk page) is another example. (I tried to edit it about a month ago, but came up short)

[_why me]

Well, actually the jews have been a rather cohesive group when it comes to marriage. There is no question about that at all. And although the jews have been widely dispersed over the globe, the custom of marrying other jews, does add to the cohesion. And so the FAIRwiki was right on with that information.

Uh, not really. If Jews didn't intermarry with the local population they would still all be very Semitic looking (dark hair, olive skinned, etc). How does a population of Jews from the Middle East end up with Blond hair and blue eyes in Europe? By marrying and mixing with the Indo-European population. That's where the diversification came from. Ashkenazi Jews were the lighter skinned Jews of Central Europe while the Sephardi were Jews who were darker skinned in the Iberian Peninsula. There are many other subgroups.

And the suicide bombing remark may be just a tad insensitive, but when one looks at it from an LDS perspective, one can see the comparison. DNA has been used to try to discredit the LDS church and one can say that critics do use such 'suicide bombing' techniques to discredit the church in an attempt to cause the same devastation theoretically. Hence, the comparison.

A tad?? They're comparing a scientific argument to a form of killing which has taken the lives of untold thousands of people the past few years. Using "suicide bomber" is over the top in my opinion.

Regardless of what you claim to be intermarriage, I tend to believe that jews basically married other jews. I do believe that there wasn't much diversity outside the jewish tradition. And basically they had the same roots in the faith, tradition, and race. This is what I was referring to. But you could be right. I am no expert.

The suicide bombing remark is to be taking fuguritively and literally. Critics who use the DNA issue, attempt to use it to full extent in an attempt to lure people out of the faith.

[_CaliforniaKid]

Where's Godwin when you need im?